What's the best route to be a commercial airline pilot?
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What's the best route to be a commercial airline pilot?
Hi, just looking for some advice. I have always wanted to a be pilot for a commercial airline but i'm not really sure of what the best route is. I have heard airlines always look for someone who has a degree, I am currently in my first year of computing but I could transfer to an Aviation with pilot studies degree course, where I also could obtain my PPL so do you think this degree
would give me an advantage? Also, where do you go from there? I have had a look at some airlines website and found airlines like EasyJet and Thomas Cook use CTCmcalpine but how does everyone else learn? One more question, is their a specific prescription for eye sight, and could I wear my specs for the eye tests for the (class 1???) medical certificates I would need? Im in
the UK if that makes any difference to anything.
Many thanks for any advice you can offer
Daniel
P.S this is my first post so sorry if it doesn't look good with no decent font etc or if its not in the most relevent group
would give me an advantage? Also, where do you go from there? I have had a look at some airlines website and found airlines like EasyJet and Thomas Cook use CTCmcalpine but how does everyone else learn? One more question, is their a specific prescription for eye sight, and could I wear my specs for the eye tests for the (class 1???) medical certificates I would need? Im in
the UK if that makes any difference to anything.
Many thanks for any advice you can offer
Daniel
P.S this is my first post so sorry if it doesn't look good with no decent font etc or if its not in the most relevent group
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Welcome aboard, Pooey my friend
Some issues:
Most of the responses to your posting will probably be along the lines of 'Read through old threads as the subject has been done enough alread'. Don't worry too much about that- after all, one doesn't know unless one has been told, eh?
My top tips:
1) Finish your degree. Whatever it is, it won't really matter. Computer stuff is a good one. Nice numerical/technical subjects will help you in your studies, but it's not a huge deal. Just have an answer ready for when the interviewer asks why you didn't do aerodynamics or something. Pilot studies sounds like a funny sort of degree to me.
2) AFTER your degree re-asses the situation. If you were to be finishing education about now, then the CTC/Easy scheme would be your first point of call.
3) If the CTC or some similar sponsorship doesn't work out for you, then you need to fund your training (CPL/IR) yourself. Budget for around £35k, and 12-18months of time not working.
4) Before spending too much time/money/emotional energy, get a class 1 medical and do a bit of private flying. You never know, you may hate it, and that would save you quite a bit of money. You could start your PPL while at university if you're so inclined.
5) Watch these 'Wannabees' forums with some attention. Don't worry if you read without writing too much.
6) Have a chat with your local flying club/school. It may be full of people with useful tips and amusing stories. Or it may not.
Hope this helps.
Ciao for now.
PS: Medical- glasses do not necessarily rule you out- you'll have to get the chaps at Gatwick to have a look at you.
Some issues:
Most of the responses to your posting will probably be along the lines of 'Read through old threads as the subject has been done enough alread'. Don't worry too much about that- after all, one doesn't know unless one has been told, eh?
My top tips:
1) Finish your degree. Whatever it is, it won't really matter. Computer stuff is a good one. Nice numerical/technical subjects will help you in your studies, but it's not a huge deal. Just have an answer ready for when the interviewer asks why you didn't do aerodynamics or something. Pilot studies sounds like a funny sort of degree to me.
2) AFTER your degree re-asses the situation. If you were to be finishing education about now, then the CTC/Easy scheme would be your first point of call.
3) If the CTC or some similar sponsorship doesn't work out for you, then you need to fund your training (CPL/IR) yourself. Budget for around £35k, and 12-18months of time not working.
4) Before spending too much time/money/emotional energy, get a class 1 medical and do a bit of private flying. You never know, you may hate it, and that would save you quite a bit of money. You could start your PPL while at university if you're so inclined.
5) Watch these 'Wannabees' forums with some attention. Don't worry if you read without writing too much.
6) Have a chat with your local flying club/school. It may be full of people with useful tips and amusing stories. Or it may not.
Hope this helps.
Ciao for now.
PS: Medical- glasses do not necessarily rule you out- you'll have to get the chaps at Gatwick to have a look at you.
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Hi thanks for your reply.
Im in my first year, only just realised this Aviation degree exists and my main reasons for doing that would not only would be a lot more interesting than computing but surely all the stuff I would learn would come in useful or be a difference if they were deciding between me and someone else? If your interested, this is the course http://tinyurl.com/xraa. I suppose I just think it would be good to learn about all the technical mechanical side, whilst also working to get a PPL both at once, save time and money? Is CTC the main one to look for then, I tend to see most airlines in their jobs sections have little about training, they seem to want already qualified pilots with x amount of flying hours etc.
Thanks for tips
daniel
Im in my first year, only just realised this Aviation degree exists and my main reasons for doing that would not only would be a lot more interesting than computing but surely all the stuff I would learn would come in useful or be a difference if they were deciding between me and someone else? If your interested, this is the course http://tinyurl.com/xraa. I suppose I just think it would be good to learn about all the technical mechanical side, whilst also working to get a PPL both at once, save time and money? Is CTC the main one to look for then, I tend to see most airlines in their jobs sections have little about training, they seem to want already qualified pilots with x amount of flying hours etc.
Thanks for tips
daniel
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Chuff is correct.
His advice is sound and thought out too.
I would say that a degree is NOT a must have at all, however if you do a degree, I do not think it would harm to have it another skill than aviation.
That way it gives you a fall back if you do not get flying for any reason.
His advice is sound and thought out too.
I would say that a degree is NOT a must have at all, however if you do a degree, I do not think it would harm to have it another skill than aviation.
That way it gives you a fall back if you do not get flying for any reason.
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Hello Daniel
If I were you I'd apply for the CTC cadetship, for someone your age, its the best way of getting to the airlines in the current climate. You can apply now and go for selection while you are studying. There is the mother of all threads on CTC selection on this very Forum. It you are in Leeds, go up to Multiflight at LBA and have a chat with the guys there, or you could go to Sherburn and do the same. I wsh I'd done the pilot studies degree too, ah well! English is just as good!
Anyway, good luck mate
If I were you I'd apply for the CTC cadetship, for someone your age, its the best way of getting to the airlines in the current climate. You can apply now and go for selection while you are studying. There is the mother of all threads on CTC selection on this very Forum. It you are in Leeds, go up to Multiflight at LBA and have a chat with the guys there, or you could go to Sherburn and do the same. I wsh I'd done the pilot studies degree too, ah well! English is just as good!
Anyway, good luck mate
Hiya,
this is my first post too. But I have been browsing the forum for some time now.
I am in a similar situation to you. I'm a Student at Uni of Manc studying Computer Engineering, currently in my second year.
The big dilemma I have at the moment is whether to do a year in industry between my second and third years.
Also I am looking to get my PPL between now and the end of next summer. Is that the right option if you primarily want sponsorship?
Should I apply to CTC now or wait till after I get my PPL and am in my third year of uni?
Cheers
Jamo
this is my first post too. But I have been browsing the forum for some time now.
I am in a similar situation to you. I'm a Student at Uni of Manc studying Computer Engineering, currently in my second year.
The big dilemma I have at the moment is whether to do a year in industry between my second and third years.
Also I am looking to get my PPL between now and the end of next summer. Is that the right option if you primarily want sponsorship?
Should I apply to CTC now or wait till after I get my PPL and am in my third year of uni?
Cheers
Jamo
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hey
First I should say that the davices from chuff and tailscrap are very good. And it is true that u don t really need a degree to become a pilot. BUT, having a degree has several advantages. First, u ll show that u have other skills, that could be usefull for an airline pilot. Doing computer programing probably devellops your skills, in analysis as well as others (get good informations on what does the job of a pilot really consists of, and try to relate it to your course, to sell yourself at the interview). The other thing with a degree, is that you will have some skills, that might allow you to take further responsabilities in the compagny u work in. I know that at air france for example, there are several guys that did some business degrees, and that have other tasks to do aside of being a pilot(in managment or something). It is both interesting, and gets u money ( and the most important, u still get to fly!). I know what u r enduring right now. I am doing an aero engineering degree, and it s boring, and too hard. I thought about stoping so many times because i don t wanna do anything else than flying, but it is an advantage. Every pilots i talked to, and i even talked to a BA recruitment guy, all told me that a degree is a very good advantage. ALso, jamo, I am thinking about doing a year in the industry. Try to do it in the aero industry ( airline compagnies if poss) and use the money u get to start flying. They wanna see that you put a lot of effort in becoming a pilot, and that you work as much as u can to fly.
you guys might also be interested in reading this survey:
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm.
Finally, i think a pilot degree course could be good. But be very carefull on studying what qualifications it will give you.
Don t missunderstand me, a degree doesn t mean u ll be a good pilot, but recruitment might see things they like about u that u aquired thanx to your degree.
Sorry for the long message, and for the bad english(i am not a native speaker). And good luck to u guys.
Winch
First I should say that the davices from chuff and tailscrap are very good. And it is true that u don t really need a degree to become a pilot. BUT, having a degree has several advantages. First, u ll show that u have other skills, that could be usefull for an airline pilot. Doing computer programing probably devellops your skills, in analysis as well as others (get good informations on what does the job of a pilot really consists of, and try to relate it to your course, to sell yourself at the interview). The other thing with a degree, is that you will have some skills, that might allow you to take further responsabilities in the compagny u work in. I know that at air france for example, there are several guys that did some business degrees, and that have other tasks to do aside of being a pilot(in managment or something). It is both interesting, and gets u money ( and the most important, u still get to fly!). I know what u r enduring right now. I am doing an aero engineering degree, and it s boring, and too hard. I thought about stoping so many times because i don t wanna do anything else than flying, but it is an advantage. Every pilots i talked to, and i even talked to a BA recruitment guy, all told me that a degree is a very good advantage. ALso, jamo, I am thinking about doing a year in the industry. Try to do it in the aero industry ( airline compagnies if poss) and use the money u get to start flying. They wanna see that you put a lot of effort in becoming a pilot, and that you work as much as u can to fly.
you guys might also be interested in reading this survey:
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm.
Finally, i think a pilot degree course could be good. But be very carefull on studying what qualifications it will give you.
Don t missunderstand me, a degree doesn t mean u ll be a good pilot, but recruitment might see things they like about u that u aquired thanx to your degree.
Sorry for the long message, and for the bad english(i am not a native speaker). And good luck to u guys.
Winch
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A degree may well be an advantage in the search for a sponsorship, or a flying job, but it is not usually a requirement - in UK. There have been some employers who have expressed a strong preference for degree-qualified candidates, and one or two sponsorships in the past have required a degree, but they are in the minority.
There is little or no relative advantage, in employment terms, for a prospective pilot taking an aviation-related degree. Where a degree is preferred by an employer, it is the fact that you have studied for, and succeeded in achieving, a degree that is important, rather than the subject. This is not a similar situation to engineers, lawyers and medics, for whom the degree is an integral part of their professional qualification process.
Therefore, the degree you choose should be in the subject you enjoy most. If that's aeronautical engineering, great, but don't expect any more credit for it than the guy who did history.
As for the more practical aspects of getting into flying, as Chuffer says, get in an aeroplane and see if you like it. Have a look at the study required for the ground exams, and be sure that you're ready to take that on as well as (or soon after) your degree. Get a Class 1 medical. If there are any issues which may prevent you from getting one, deal with them now. DO NOT spend any money on professional flying training until your Class 1 is in the bag. Do the GAPAN aptitude tests to assess what your potential is (do a search in this forum if you've never heard of the GAPAN tests), and think carefully about the wisdom of committing serious money to training if their advice is against it.
Work hard. Be committed to your ambition. But above all, enjoy it!
Scroggs
There is little or no relative advantage, in employment terms, for a prospective pilot taking an aviation-related degree. Where a degree is preferred by an employer, it is the fact that you have studied for, and succeeded in achieving, a degree that is important, rather than the subject. This is not a similar situation to engineers, lawyers and medics, for whom the degree is an integral part of their professional qualification process.
Therefore, the degree you choose should be in the subject you enjoy most. If that's aeronautical engineering, great, but don't expect any more credit for it than the guy who did history.
As for the more practical aspects of getting into flying, as Chuffer says, get in an aeroplane and see if you like it. Have a look at the study required for the ground exams, and be sure that you're ready to take that on as well as (or soon after) your degree. Get a Class 1 medical. If there are any issues which may prevent you from getting one, deal with them now. DO NOT spend any money on professional flying training until your Class 1 is in the bag. Do the GAPAN aptitude tests to assess what your potential is (do a search in this forum if you've never heard of the GAPAN tests), and think carefully about the wisdom of committing serious money to training if their advice is against it.
Work hard. Be committed to your ambition. But above all, enjoy it!
Scroggs
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winch launch!
the course ain't that bad!
stick with it!
ignore those bloody stupid aerodynamics lecturers tho
- haven't got a clue!
when we gona make it down to nymps next then?
stick
the course ain't that bad!
stick with it!
ignore those bloody stupid aerodynamics lecturers tho
- haven't got a clue!when we gona make it down to nymps next then?
stick
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A few of you have mentioned that if your half way through a degree then finish it and it seems like the right idea. However, would you advise an 18 year old with 2 or more decent A levels to start a degree when in 3 years time they will graduate with a big debt which maybe could be spent on flight training or at least not on top of something like a HSBC career development loan should there be a need for one. The last thing you want is to be paying 2 big loans off.
RE
RE
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RE
I have to say I don't envy you, and the tricky decision you are going to have to make.
It is worth pointing out a few things: (and mixing a couple of metaphors)
1) Although the recruiting tide appears to be turning, we are not out of the woods yet. Now is not necessarily a fantastic time to start training. A gamble may, however, pay off.
2) A degree gives a backup plan to the volatile aviation industry.
3) Going to university is great fun, and in 3 years, if passenger number predictions are correct, we will all be making hay in the sunshine.
However, Tony has decided that you will suffer from going to uni, so it's up to you. The best of luck for whatever you decide.
Ciao
CC
I have to say I don't envy you, and the tricky decision you are going to have to make.
It is worth pointing out a few things: (and mixing a couple of metaphors)
1) Although the recruiting tide appears to be turning, we are not out of the woods yet. Now is not necessarily a fantastic time to start training. A gamble may, however, pay off.
2) A degree gives a backup plan to the volatile aviation industry.
3) Going to university is great fun, and in 3 years, if passenger number predictions are correct, we will all be making hay in the sunshine.
However, Tony has decided that you will suffer from going to uni, so it's up to you. The best of luck for whatever you decide.
Ciao
CC
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Thanks CC some good points there. Your right it is a hard decision, the decision is another 3 years off for me and alot of things could change in that period, fingers crossed it's all good.
RE
RE
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I have to say I think on the whole I now regret going to uni. Yeah sure it was a great time, grew up, cheap beer and the rest. However the letter from the student loan people turned up a month ago and now I'm looking at a debt of over 10K before I even start any professional training. I now feel I should have started working at 18 and avoided the student debt in the first place. That way I'd be further up (down) the slippery fATPL slope.
Other guys have mentioned the many plus points of Uni,and they are all correct. A degree does also = backup plan. But what is the use of a backup plan if you know that in your heart all you want to do is fly? To me a backup plan is a like an emergency checklist - what to do when everything has gone horribly pete tong. And it is hard to contemplate failure before you even start. I dont mean to discourage the guys doing A-levels, halfway through degrees etc - yes uni is a good idea and has many good points, but it also carries a hefty financial cost/penalty. This is just the way i feel about the whole go/don't go to uni question where I am right now.
Good luck with your studies guys
Other guys have mentioned the many plus points of Uni,and they are all correct. A degree does also = backup plan. But what is the use of a backup plan if you know that in your heart all you want to do is fly? To me a backup plan is a like an emergency checklist - what to do when everything has gone horribly pete tong. And it is hard to contemplate failure before you even start. I dont mean to discourage the guys doing A-levels, halfway through degrees etc - yes uni is a good idea and has many good points, but it also carries a hefty financial cost/penalty. This is just the way i feel about the whole go/don't go to uni question where I am right now.
Good luck with your studies guys
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degree does also = backup plan. But what is the use of a backup plan if you know that in your heart all you want to do is fly?
winch
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Perhaps one of the most important things that many of you need to learn is that taking advice from those in the same position as yourself is a bit pointless! You need to listen to those who have been thriough the system and experienced both the highs and the lows, the successes and failures, and have learned how to deal with them. Speculation from other wannabes is interesting, but often not helpful.
You need a back up plan because, very often, life doesn't work out the way you want it to. Even if things do work out, it might take a great deal longer than you'd anticipated to get that first paid flying job, and you need to earn a living in the meantime. You may, like thousands of type-rated ATPL-qualified pilots in 2001, lose your flying job at a time when there are none to be had elsewhere yet you have a 100k mortgage and wife (or husband) and two kids to support. These things really happen to real people, and it's a safe bet that at least 50% of you will suffer prolonged unemployment at some point in your flying career.
So back-up plans are important. I don't care whether it's a degree or a plumbing course; just make sure you are able to earn a living some other way. The number of pilots who make it to full-term retirement without needing some kind of back-up is very small.
Scroggs
You need a back up plan because, very often, life doesn't work out the way you want it to. Even if things do work out, it might take a great deal longer than you'd anticipated to get that first paid flying job, and you need to earn a living in the meantime. You may, like thousands of type-rated ATPL-qualified pilots in 2001, lose your flying job at a time when there are none to be had elsewhere yet you have a 100k mortgage and wife (or husband) and two kids to support. These things really happen to real people, and it's a safe bet that at least 50% of you will suffer prolonged unemployment at some point in your flying career.
So back-up plans are important. I don't care whether it's a degree or a plumbing course; just make sure you are able to earn a living some other way. The number of pilots who make it to full-term retirement without needing some kind of back-up is very small.
Scroggs
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I tend to agree with Scroggs although I haven't experienced this yet. My tale goes along something like this...
Started four year Aeronautical Engineering degree course October 1992 having already achieved PPL/IMC and about 200 hours.
Left said course after a year realising it was much as Winchlaunch has described.
After working over the summer months started a full time course at the London Guildhall University studying for the CPL theory.
Twelve weeks later and all CPL ground subjects completed I tackled the CPL GFTs finishing finally about two months later.
Six months after this I undertook a flying instructor course and went on to instruct first of all part-time then full-time for three years.
Having completed the IR I had my first commercial job three months later.
So in summary; left boring university course June 1993. First commercial job flying turbo-props January 1997.
You decide.
Started four year Aeronautical Engineering degree course October 1992 having already achieved PPL/IMC and about 200 hours.
Left said course after a year realising it was much as Winchlaunch has described.
After working over the summer months started a full time course at the London Guildhall University studying for the CPL theory.
Twelve weeks later and all CPL ground subjects completed I tackled the CPL GFTs finishing finally about two months later.
Six months after this I undertook a flying instructor course and went on to instruct first of all part-time then full-time for three years.
Having completed the IR I had my first commercial job three months later.
So in summary; left boring university course June 1993. First commercial job flying turbo-props January 1997.
You decide.
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need advices
Hey
I have actually seriously thought about dropping the course. I found a pretty good job (that I didn’t t accept yet) in the aviation, and thought I should work on that for about 8 months. In the mean time I would try any sponsorship I know, and if they don t work, I would start my ATP training. There is one thing that worries me though. People keep on telling me that dropping from a course, especially in the middle of a year, will look very bad in my CV. Recruiters would think that I was just scared of the exams, and didn t dare to face the work or something like that…(as I explained in my previous posts, it s not really the reason) I got advised to finish my second year, and drop after my exams. I feel it s a bit of a waste of time, and if I fail (which might happen because I am a bit struggling, and have lack of motivation) I guess it would probably look even worse, to drop after failing. Man Flex, u said you stoped your course, but was it after exams? Also u probably had the valuable argument of saying that u just didn t like the course, while if i say that, a recruiter will wonder why i started a second year then. I am a bit hesitating, and any advices would be welcome. I wanna make sure I make the right decision.
thanx a lot for the previous replies
Winch
I have actually seriously thought about dropping the course. I found a pretty good job (that I didn’t t accept yet) in the aviation, and thought I should work on that for about 8 months. In the mean time I would try any sponsorship I know, and if they don t work, I would start my ATP training. There is one thing that worries me though. People keep on telling me that dropping from a course, especially in the middle of a year, will look very bad in my CV. Recruiters would think that I was just scared of the exams, and didn t dare to face the work or something like that…(as I explained in my previous posts, it s not really the reason) I got advised to finish my second year, and drop after my exams. I feel it s a bit of a waste of time, and if I fail (which might happen because I am a bit struggling, and have lack of motivation) I guess it would probably look even worse, to drop after failing. Man Flex, u said you stoped your course, but was it after exams? Also u probably had the valuable argument of saying that u just didn t like the course, while if i say that, a recruiter will wonder why i started a second year then. I am a bit hesitating, and any advices would be welcome. I wanna make sure I make the right decision.
thanx a lot for the previous replies
Winch
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Best Route In?
Hi,
This is my first post of these boards, so apologies If I've put this in the wrong place (the huge array of boards you've got here look a bit daunting at first glance).
I'm 16 and looking to become a commercial pilot within the next few years, and I was wondering what approach (forgive the pun) I should take to get into the industry. I am currently a member of my local Air Cadet unit (158 (Witham) D/F if anybody wants to know) and have been for the past 3 and a half years.
I know it's one hell of an expensive bill for the training, so I'm looking at CTC McAlpine's Cadet Sponsorship Scheme as a possible route in, along with other airline sponsorships.
Also, I'm curious of the limits of the JAR Class I medical with regards to weight in proportion to height. As a fairly large person, it's a bit of a worry to me that I might not even pass the medical.
Thanks in advance for any help
Craig
This is my first post of these boards, so apologies If I've put this in the wrong place (the huge array of boards you've got here look a bit daunting at first glance).
I'm 16 and looking to become a commercial pilot within the next few years, and I was wondering what approach (forgive the pun) I should take to get into the industry. I am currently a member of my local Air Cadet unit (158 (Witham) D/F if anybody wants to know) and have been for the past 3 and a half years.
I know it's one hell of an expensive bill for the training, so I'm looking at CTC McAlpine's Cadet Sponsorship Scheme as a possible route in, along with other airline sponsorships.
Also, I'm curious of the limits of the JAR Class I medical with regards to weight in proportion to height. As a fairly large person, it's a bit of a worry to me that I might not even pass the medical.
Thanks in advance for any help
Craig