bugs bunny

Hello, would anyone be so kind to help me out understand taxation applied to pilots in France?
I am considering a flying job in France that offers 120000 euro a year gross. Considering that I am married with two children and my wife doesn’t work, what can I consider a fair take-home money out of that?
Merci

wiggy

I’m only a long term visitor to France but I suppose the 64,000 Euro question is where are your family going to be resident? You can get a first order of magnitude estimate of Income tax here, using tax “Simulators” such as this:

https://www3.impots.gouv.fr/simulate...ifie/index.htm

....but the real hit can be social charges (similar in part to U.K. national Insurance) and charges for things like healthcare if it’s not part of your proposed “package” ....

bugs bunny

Thank you for your post.
The idea is to move to France with the family (own a property, kids in school, etc.).
I tried the "simulator" and got an idea of the income tax. Social charges, as I understand will be split between the employer and the employee but it is hard to find the figures.

Anyone with a similar gross income willing to share what would be an average take home money? Full time resident, family of four, wife with no income.
Merci!

fab777

Hello!

The employee's part of the social charges is roundly 20% of your gross income. Therefore, your net earning will be more or less 95 k€. Then you can run the simulator with that figure.

Hope this helps...

bugs bunny

Thank you guys, it looks like, once the social contributions are deducted, very little income tax is due if married with children.
Is there a catch?
Feel free to PM if needed.
Merci!

MCR01

In French terms that would be quite a well paid job. I would not be surprised if the taxman didn't want 40%. France has a proper socialist economy; it's great place to live if you are dirt poor. The plus sides: better weather and food and an incomparably better health service. The down sides: the bureaucracy will drive you insane; incessant tail-gating by drivers (I could go on and on and on). Oh, and don't forget that in France "the customer is always wrong".....

wiggy

Having dependents certainly helps (due to a device known as the “parts” system), but be aware that that benefit is under threat from the politicians.

If you are going to have lots of genuinely work related expenses then you can reduce your exposure to tax by deducting those from your taxable income (look up ”Frais reels” ...apologies for mangling that, no accents on this keyboard). It does involve a lot of record keeping and book keeping but might be worth doing, though bear in mind AFAIK anyone working gets a 10% allowance anyway, so it might not be worth the effort.

Personally and IMHO the healthcare is good and worth every penny, a lot of the rest of the experience is I think down to where you end up living - here in the deepest south the beaurcracy is long winded but generally works eventually - we have had lots of help from the civil servants in the various local offices, and the local drivers are v good, considerate of cyclists, etc. ...but I think the “customer is always wrong” is universal....

Good luck.

bugs bunny

Thank you all for the informative replies.

I appreciate and hope it will all work out well. We are planning to live outside the city where hopefully there will be a lot less of the problems that have been mentioned.

Safe landings,

Bugs Bunny

Bidule

So, why are you living there? (SW France on your profile)

HyFlyer

There is no way to calculate for sure an 'exact' figure.

May seem crazy, but welcome to France. The authorities 'guestimate' as much as the citizens do for the simple fact that all the myriad of deductions are so complex and interconnected that it is a nightmare.

How do I know this for a FACT?

Simple, had a tax investigation and review a few years ago....6 months under review and then a 3 month extension with full open book review by the tax and social security investigators.
The result.....my annual tax declarations were deemed absolutely 100% accurate...and correct.

This was a tad of a surprise to me as I had guessed them in the first place as best approximations. Having given up trying to understand the 'system'....and work out every single line item. So my declarations were 100% correct. Great.

Then, I was fined a massive 50 Euros because I had underpaid my social charges. The only thing was that I had paid EXACTLY the social charges requested of me by the State based on their calculations from my declarations, which recall were deemed correct. So effectively they were saying their own previous calculations were incorrect...not my payments.
Ipso facto......They guess.......

So it's a lottery what you pay......and likely having some well placed 'friends' is more use in determining what amount of tax you pay, than any amount of detailed calculation.

This isn't actually corruption....it's just rank inefficiency and massive overcomplication making this the only way anything can function at all.

ATC Watcher

Taxation is complex in France , I guess you understood that by now .But every Country has its own surprises , it is called CSG and CRDS in France ( 9-10% extra social contributions) or Kirchensteuer in Germany ( 8-9% extra ) etc...this in addition to standard income tax.
In addition in France if your property and portfolio is valued to exceed a certain amount you will be subject to ISF ( Fortune tax) etc..
Best advice I would give you is next time you are in France , visit a tax consultant with your contract and your intentions and he/she will get you a good estimate of what you will take home in the end.
If you speak good French , you can also visit a governmental " centre d'impot" to get the same estimate for free.

wiggy

Very good advice..and at the moment there is a centre in each prefecture and most (?all) sub-prefectures, so they are fairly easy to find, and they usually do "walk ins" though you may have to queue.

HyFlyer

The thing is you'll have heard maybe of something called Europe ...even the EU.

Now it's hard to grasp but whilst you hear a lot about it, it actually doesn't exist. It's a fantasy. The simple reality is that Europe isn't in any way integrated and efficient and transparent. Each country still has an entirely parochial attitude.

So if you come to France and settle, and essentially have ALL your life and investments and possessions here, then maybe you'll get a meaningful answer from the French taxes about your situation, but as soon as you have a 'European' life forget it.

If you have life insurance accounts and investments in multiple countries, properties in multiple countries.....with pensions in various countries.......you are literally 'on your own'.

172510

Social security withholding is around 20%
Taxable income is NOT the net income you receive, it's higher as part of the withholding is not deductible.
In 2018 you won't pay any tax in addition to the social security withholding. It's call the "année blanche" due to the change to a UK like payee system.

MCR01

Bidule asked why am I living in France. I think I've partially answered that - "The plus sides: better weather and food and an incomparably better health service." Also the Alps is a very good place to fly sailplanes.
Then there's the minor matter that my wife likes living in France.

Willy Miller

is this actually happening...?

wiggy

We will see....timescales and how exactly it really will be implemented seem to be a source of debate...must admit I’m planning on filling in forms as usual and having the money in the bank ready to pay as in previous years.

Impôt sur le revenu : 2018, l?année blanche ?

SpGo

It is happening indeed, but 2018 is not a tax free year, you have to pay income tax on your 2017 salary! Only those moving to France won’t pay income tax, in 2018. Social security, cgs and crds, total around 30%, are due though, as well as income tax on worldwide income from property, shares, capital gains,...

plnplt

Hi all,

- can someone kindly direct me to a tax consultant in France that speaks english, or german? I'll pay you a finders fee!

- can someone kindly direct me to a labour law specialist in France that speaks english, or german? Finders fee again for you!


- how is the pension system working france for pilots? Does one get a state pension and the CRPN?

Thank you Merci Beaucoup!

CL300

Rough figure, in aviation field with mandatory contributions you are around 25% of social charges (Social security, retirement, unemployment, etc..) to be withdrawn from your gross, so you will get around 90000, from this your tax bracket is 41% so you end with 53000 take home.
BUT now come the deductions, married , 2 kids,
you will be credited back of some 10000, so at the end it will be like 63000 net /net per annum so 5250€..
From this you will have to pay house tax and other things ( depending on where you are living) but on this salary you can plan another 6000€/year
And remember you pay the year AFTER ! So you have to save for you to pay this sum later.

The state pension works if you have contributed to the system for around 40 years (+/-) or it is more or less a total loss, and then it is capped to a maximum. You have to contribute to an external scheme.