Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > French Forum
Reload this Page >

Cat III NO DH in France

Cat III NO DH in France

Old 19th May 2010, 18:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cat III NO DH in France ?

Whereas we normally can do a Cat IIIb to 0 feet DH and 75 meters, I've recently been told that Cat III NO DH is not permitted in France ! (?).

Could someone in this esteemed group please enlighten me - preferable with references to an on-line document - of the truth of this matter?

[added b]

Last edited by dusk2dawn; 23rd May 2010 at 19:12. Reason: [added ?]
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 19th May 2010, 20:44
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: paris
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I confirm the DGAC requirement for CAT3B with DH only
esterel is offline  
Old 20th May 2010, 07:52
  #3 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry, I think I do not quite follow you: is ILS CAT IIIb NO DH permitted or not permitted in France?
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 20th May 2010, 11:12
  #4 (permalink)  
kijangnim
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
No DH is NONO you have to have a DH, furthermore what advantage do you see in not having a DH on a CATIII B?
 
Old 21st May 2010, 07:57
  #5 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The advantage of 0 DH is..... well why have a DH when the required visibility is only 75 meters? For the past 10 years we've done CAT IIIb to 0' and 75m - even using HUD without autopilot.
But I would like to learn why you think a DH > 0' is some kind of an advantage over 0 DH?

However, when I search the French AIP, the only thing I find concerning CAT III is under GEN 1-7 Differences...A & B under Annex 10 (?) wich states that "For category III A and B precision approaches, a decision height is always required."

But what is the required DH? Is 5' OK?
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 21st May 2010, 08:23
  #6 (permalink)  
kijangnim
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Greetings,
DH for CATIIIB is mainly for you to assess if the Aircraft is properly positioned for AUTOLAND, and it is so low that if you Go Around it will be more a Touch and Go than a Go.
So pratically very little difference between DH or NO DH.
Some guys then will mix up NO DH, (no visual cues required) with I can land with RVR 0 if I have NO DH.
, because 75 Meters is the minimum RVR enabling Fire and Rescue team to reach the Airplane with 3 minutes MAX, in case things turned bad, and/or enabling you to taxi out the Airplane.

Last edited by kijangnim; 23rd May 2010 at 09:56.
 
Old 21st May 2010, 08:52
  #7 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK, so what DH is the minimum acceptable to the French authorities when you conduct a CAT IIIb in France and where in the French regulations can you find it?
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 26th May 2010, 11:37
  #8 (permalink)  
kijangnim
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Greetings
I have just heard that Air France is working on a proposal to have CATIII B no DH with DGAC, so just be patient
 
Old 27th May 2010, 18:04
  #9 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'll be looking forward to that!
Still no reference (doesen't have to be english) to the minimum DH required for a CAT IIIB in France?
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:22
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...2010_04_26.pdf

page 118...

then https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...EA_A_06_V2.pdf


good reading,

CAT 3 minima depends on the assesment of the approach..untill AF has done the work...good luck
CL300 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2010, 07:30
  #11 (permalink)  
Transparency International
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denmark
Posts: 745
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Merci bocu!
dusk2dawn is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2010, 20:19
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Europe
Age: 51
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If I remember correctly, we use 27ft DH in France CATIIIb, although the radalt can only display in 10ft increments on the approach, so it is a bit of a useless excercise, by the time you have to decide you have almost touched down.
Comanche is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 13:50
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Anz
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi guys,

has anything changed since then regarding CATIIIB no DH in France?

Thanks.
giord is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 15:39
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
BDX MRS TLS CDG NTE LYS all 0 DH
deltahotel is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2021, 05:42
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 167
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by deltahotel
BDX MRS TLS CDG NTE LYS all 0 DH
BDX is not in France (Broadus, Montana, USA) but BOD (Bordeaux) is.

.
Bidule is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2021, 10:43
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Soz, but you know what I meant!
deltahotel is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.