As an outsider, these were my thoughts exactly, it makes sound economic sense and if true - good on yer DHL!

I would just ask the knockers to consider the alternatives! DHL could bring all the owned A300's onto the Belgian register & just terminate the contract with ACL once the 72s die in the night network. The aircraft have been operated on a contract basis so DHL have no obligation to provide alternative employment for any of the staff. It still seems to me that ACL & DHL are working together to minimise any job losses & rationalise the whole operation. If you guys want to take the negative approach, thats your perogative and you don't have to come to the party.

I M Spartacus - you have a point but the regulations are a bit 'grey'. There are precedents already, BA - Aussie CEO, easyJet (Greek) & Go (Yank) so I feel that DHL & ACL would not have made the announcement without being reasonably certain that the blessing with holy water is coming.

And before it starts, it's been obvious from my posts that I do work for one of the parties but not far enough up the food chain to to influence decisions & I'll be the first to critisize if I think 'Management' have got it wrong. I have also, in the past, lost my job & spent time with an uncertain future so don't think I'm unsympathetic.

Time will tell & I'm sure that opinions will still be polarised even after the dust has settled. Over to you guys again.

DHL and ACL are and will remain very close but watch this space after the A300's go back over too E.A.T ACL will venture out and buy bigger aircraft ie DC-10 or 747's so maybe no job losses after-all.

Planet Zog calling Earth .....is there intelligent life out there. Come on chaps reality is passing you by. The 727 is history and sudenly our management is going to replace them with desert loads of wide bodies, yeah right. So back here on planet earth where do the drivers fit in. Well according to some, jobs are secure at DHL Air. Pause for thought here Banzai, there's more 757/767 pilots floating around than there is plancton in the Irish sea, so why would DHL Air want to shell out the hard earned for the conversion eh? When we wake up, which beach will we find ourselves washed up on. Fortunately I've booked my passage for fairer seas. ...Gosh I've gone all nautical.

[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: I.M. Spartacus ]</p>

Mill Air, Sorry but you must be dreaming if you think ACL are going to turn up with B747 or DC10s.Anyway if they did they would use ready rated crews to operate them, the same as I believe they are doing on the french postal contract.....and thats A300s!!!

On the subject of DHL Uk, I expect the selection criteria to be, X-thousand hours, on jets with 100 or more pax, and the G reg on the tail.

Rockon Tommy, ACL plan to use three of their own A300's for the postal contract and the word on the grape vine is ACL will buy larger aircraft?? <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

I M Spart

If ACL make their drivers redundant how much would it cost them vv a conversion?. Do any of their Pilots have length of service carried over from Hunting?. How many do you think would come to Air given the choice?

Yes there are plenty of 757 drivers out there, who's to say they are the right folk anyway, most of them wouldn't have applied until after the tragic 11th of Sept and there's been plenty of previous comments about the "package".

If DHL want to be loyal to a good bunch of Pilots then good on them. Either way there are employment
issues here as previously mentioned. If Air are told to look at applicants from ACL favourably then i'd support that view. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Sick, I dunno where you're coming from if you think DHL have any obligations to ACL beyond the legal ones in the contracts that, as far as I am aware, gives a 90 day termination clause on the use of the aircraft. I don't know the details of the Management contract for the EAT owned A300's but I would guess that they also have a similar 'get out' clause.

Where you get the idea that there is any legal obligation to the ACL employees I have no idea although I will readily admit that my knowledge of Irish, or even EU, law is far from complete.

I am a firm believer in the advice from Corporal Jones - "Don't Panic".

DHL Air had already taken non-type rated pilots although it is true that 757 rated guys and gals are plentiful post 11/9 and the current hirings appear all to be type rated.

If the 727s are to be phased out by the end of 2002 and their work taken on by 757s there should be opportunities for the 727 guys from Air Contractors. The DHL order for 757s ex-BA puts 11 in Brussels with EAT and 23 at EMA with DHL Air. Only about half of those aircraft will be in service by the end of 2002 so there will be job opportunities right through 2003 to match further deliveries which should suit the timings for ACL pilots who remain on the 727 to the end of this year. By the end of this year, who knows what the job market will be or how many 757 rated pilots will return to passenger work when the charter companies realise they have cut back too much.

Hopefully, the management of all the 'interested' parties will be putting their heads together soon and should be able to give out some more information on their plans. I am sure that DHL do not want a disgruntled, unco-operative set of crews at ACL as we move towards the end of the year. It's in everybody's interest to keep the workforce informed and happy and the current information vacuum and contradictory notices are not helping.

This particular vacuum is filling with rumour and speculation. It is less than a month since the changes were announced, so a little more patience is probably in order.

The question of Flight Engineers' futures must be exercising their minds.

I am a new boy to freight, working for DHL Air at EMA. The ACL crews I have met are great guys and very professional in their operation. In effect, we work together now. I hope we can all work together in the future.

So there you have it. Mikado has spoken and we should all be assured. Or should we? Consider Mikado the opera, allow me to summarise the plot.

A year before the action of this opera begins, Nanki-Poo, son of the Mikado of Japan, fled his father's imperial court to escape marriage with Katisha, an elderly lady. Disguised as a traveling musician, he met and fell in love with Yum-Yum, the young ward of Ko-Ko, a cheap tailor in the town of Titipu. Yum-Yum, however, was already betrothed to her guardian, and Nanki-Poo left Titipu in despair.

So the Mikado is a tale of those who were desparate to mislead in order to satisfy their own selfish desires and everybody ends up miserable. So no change there then (Have I got news for you)......

I don't think EAT are really interested in Brits working for them.If you look on DHL.be web site under jobs you will find an EAT advert for A300 crews it's in flemish.Have you seen it anywhere else in English ?

Yes
all there jobs are advertised in Flemish and English in the crewroom in BRU but in not sure or this is only for internal applications.

Neil

Mr Sick,
What obligations do DHL have towards ACL employees. Please advise.

DHL, Probably has the same obligation to EAT as ACL employees, It's the timescale that matters. DHLAir uk though as in "DHL" probably exempt.

Rumours abound and this thread has gone quite. So Whats happening? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Thats because we are all very very happy..Spartacus.

But alas we will be happier when our "bonus" cheques arrive! Just like our xmas bonus when we had some alloances deducted from our expenses because we didnt apply the rules.

But we will have the last laufgh when we abide by the rules!
No worked days off
No extension or reduction of rest
No reroutes
No carrying the a/c via the mel
no and i could go on but ive a pain in my rear exit with all this stuff.


Happy Drinking.

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: happy-cappy ]</p>

I was looking for some sober reflection!So what the ULD is going on?
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Im not really sure Spartacus, but im not looking forward to a lot of change because of my settled state.

Depends on what seat you sit in and on what fleet i suppose.

Im left seat and work ex ema you?

But as i love my family, im quite happy.

Every now and again the company tears me reluctlantly away from my family and send me home to my wife!!!

Keep taking the Pills!!

Cheers Spartacus, well meet soon and fix the wrongs!(probably in ze franklin)

In fact guys, realing thinking about the changes to be, and as its really out of our control, theres no point worrying about it.

Personnally i dont think we have anything to worry about jobwise (except the f/e), which i hope is being addressed within the company.

The only reservation i have is that were not being told things in order keep us here until its too late! but i have to trust in what im being told??????


I hope!

or...... what do you say to an ACL pilot in uniform?

_Big Mac & Fries please

Rumour has it that the UK CAA has rejected Hugh Flynn, following a meeting sometime last week, as MD and Accountable Manager for DHL Air.
Futher rumours overheard in the crew room suggested this had nothing to do with nationality and implied it was more to do with his qualifications or experience.
If this is true,with EAT apparently training A300 crews and an abundance of B757 crews standing around where does this leave the plan now with regard to the expectations within ACL?

"abundance of 757 crews"!?!?

Where?

Wet Power, where've you been since 11/9. You need to get out more! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

There's something going down, and by the sound of it, it's top management. I've heard the same rumour at BRU. Can anybody corroborate HUDINIMC's report or provide more info. The consequences of this, if true, are of concern to us all.

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: I.M. Spartacus ]</p>

Why don't you guys just admit that whoever really knows what's going on is not going to post it here? Wait and see. It'll all come out in the wash.

And what about the Airline Appointments' crewmembers flying out of BRU ? It seems thats these chaps will be stuck on the 72s, until the dead end, and then...Foxtrot Oscar ! ( dunno the flamish word for that )

Keep the greasy side down,

--------------------------------------------------. .Look through the window <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Any new developments? Or have everyone just given up wondering whats gonna happen?

Maybe we all happy!

No 'Happy Cappy' we have not stopped wondering WTFIH . It is alleged that ACL management will breach 'the cone of silence' they have created tomorrow. The 'announcement will be posted to all concerned and appear on notice boards etc.

Past experience regarding such announcements would suggest we don't hold our breath.

Good news or bad news for some,it matters not.The advice to equipe onesself with the best legal advice is good advice. How many ACL people have done this? You may rue your complacency chaps!!!

And the BIG announcement is .......?????. .Nobody seems to know ,anybody who can tell me.

Neil.

The silence is deafening!

Have you not heard then Neil ??.. .RGDS. .I Kid <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: I Kid ]</p>

The big announcement is that there is not going to be one....

I think something will be announced very soon. I hear that South African wine is now formally considered better than that already found in the UK.

Very little wine found in the UK originates from here!!!

If the quality of they're management style reflects the quality of South African Wine ,then the wine critic needs some professional help!!!

Is'nt the silence becoming sopporific??!!

The announcement should be on the notice board tonight (i have been told by people in the know!!). .But i think they are telling me this so i will show up on time for a change! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

UPDATE!!!!

The news is out,for crews not staying with ACL Ireland ,Pilots will transition onto the 757(DHL AIR).. .F/E will become pilots(if appropriately qualified),become ground engineer or move over to EAT.. .Courses start in April after this date 4 crews per month should be retrained.. .ACL Ireland keeping 2 727 , 2 L382 and 3 A300 for third party work.. .Good to know what is hapning.

Neil

[ 20 February 2002: Message edited by: neil armstrong ]. .edited as the Civil version is L382 regds Hogg

[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: Hogg ]</p>

Congratulations guys, its nice to finally see some good news on this subject. Now maybe I can get Hogg to buy me a congratulatory beer <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

. .Mutt.

Yeah course i will. If u ever come home. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Latest from the international freightdog crew room!. .ACL are currently line traing C130 flight engineers from the RAF to crew their new fleet. Meanwhile the present loyal ACL F/Es are getting interviews for their demise as the B727 goes out of service with no promise of future employment.. .NOT THE WAY TO TREAT COMPANY STAFF <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Neil and others who may be able to answer these questions.

What courses are starting in April (A300 - B.757)?. .Are ACL personnel transfering to DHL Air or EAT and if so what are their terms etc and how will they be chosen ?.. . . .As an outsider looking in, what is happening with regard to the employment contracts for ACL Crews, EAT Crew, and those employed by DHL Air.. .It would appear to be a nightmare in the making.

As there are UK residents working for EAT will they be allowed to transfer within the group so that they could be benefit from a closer to home base.

Many questions to be answered yet !!.