Lufthansa Cargo to replace MD11F
 

Rumored that they are not happy with the aircraft and new types are being evaluated.

Oh?

Well it took them an awful long time to figure that one out then. They always sang its praises... :confused:

It keeps them out of the heavy cargo market, which suits us just fine though! :}

Md-11f
 

Any idea why they are not liking the acft now? Are they carrying much more and going further therefore find no use for this medium range baby?:confused:

curious....As I thought the MD-11 was one of the best cargo babies around. Always have wanted to fly one.

COuld be reliability issues, or maybe they are losing a contract that they use them on.

I've always looked at it this way.

LH decided a long time ago that flying small boxes at premium prices was the way to go. So the MD11 made sense.

We at CLX think somewhat differently. Bring the 25T ship's engine, we'll do it. We're not cheap but we can do it. LH can't. (Thats why they have an Atlas -400F flying for them to carry real freight from time to time).

Maybe LH have finally seen the light. The majority of the heavyweight cargo in our general region comes from the Ruhr in Germany (DUS area). Their national carrier can't fly it.

I heard on the grapevine that AF dont take anything heavier than 20T anymore. Anyone confirm or is that b/s?

Since we're on the subject of equipment.... anyone notice that no freight carriers have ordered the A380F? (UPS/FEDEX dont count).

Speak for yerself!

ok ok, via Avalon on the odd occasion :}

Oh - BTW - some news.. MEL has a 27T highloader, shock horror.

CR2 wrote: "Since we're on the subject of equipment.... anyone notice that no freight carriers have ordered the A380F?


With all due respect, reviewing the Airbus "Orders and Deliveries" sheet at Airbus, and excluding FedEx and UPS, International Lease and Finance Company (even though they are not themselves a freight carrier) ordered 5 of the A380F variants, and although it is not clear where they will ultimately be placed, I would lean towards someone other than Memphis or Louisville.

Looking back, in my limited experience, a number of different models of aircraft from McDonnell Douglas, Airbus, Boeing, and others, it seems to me that the passenger version was in service for varying periods of time before a freighter version came into fruition. Perhaps that is the case once again. I expect that there is certainly is a need for such an aircraft, and perhaps those who make those decisions will do so, at a time that is prudent for their operation.

If you build it, they will come.

Here's the .url for the sheet, but you may need to tunnel your way into it if it doesn't work. Didn't for me until I posted it here.


http://www.airbus.com/odxml/orders_and_deliveries.xls


11Fan

Edit comment. had to fix the link.

A380 is no good for heavy or awkward cargo. It will never be a noseloader either. This is where the 747F sings its own. A380F, fine for integrator or courier containerised volumetric loads..hence the FDX & UPS orders.

Yes...but no one knows how to drive it!:rolleyes:

... how about the replacements coming from an upstart... called "Jade Cargo" ???? :O

cargoflyer.. I never thought of that. Any idea when they're starting? Or have they already done so?

I suspect not
 

Lufthansa Cargo purchased some of the most recent MD-11's, right off of the production line. Following that, they purchased five more MD-11's through Boeing's Passenger to Freighter Modification Program.

A pretty hefty investment if they were planning on dumping them.

As CR2 stated, apparently Lufthansa Cargo uses Atlas for their "outsize cargo" even though the all-cargo MD-11F provides the capacity for 202,100-pound (91,670 kilograms) gross payloads. Add to that, Lufthansa Cargo retired their 747-Classic Fleet in favor of the MD-11 as it met their operational requirements. (MD-11 specifications from boeing.com)

Jade on the other hand just purchased six new 747-400ER Freighters from Boeing. Jade Cargo International is co-owned by Shenzhen Airlines, Lufthansa Cargo and Dutsche Investitions- und Entwicklungsgesellschaft.

My understanding is that Lufthansa Cargo is satisfied with the MD-11, both performance and capacity.

More about Jade, as well as Lufthansa Cargo is at the Lufthansa Cargo website:

http://www.lufthansa-cargo.com/US/content.jsp?path=0,19061,45236,45237,54320

Rumor being the operative word here, newscaster, how solid is your source?

Regards,

11Fan

Jade operated their first scheduled flight into Schiphol on Saturday 5th August (and their second on Monday).

A380Fs are probably not going to be first choice for other cargo carriers for some time as they don't offer anywhere near the same options as smaller beasts or the 747F. They require some specialised equipment to bring cargo from the top deck, and has already been said they can't noseload or take outsized cargo. Also, they will be limited in the number of airports they can operate in to until more upgrade their facilities to be A380 compliant. They're great for the package operators who can put them all in ULDs and pack it to the hilt, but airline operators will probably favour the 747-8F.

I wouldn´t be surprised seeing B772Fs in LH-Cargo colours towards the end of the decade...
Although the reliability of the MD-11F has gone up over the last years, they are still apparently unhappy with this three-holer. And one can only guess about the support from Boeing for this type of aeroplane...

Cheers,
J. V.

11fan,
yes, enlighten us, please... ;)

J.V.

How about 747-400BCF
 

Hmm, I guess no one thinks of 747BCF...and if Lufthansa decides to retire its passenger 400s guess what will they do?

I guess follow the others already doing this.

It is cheaper then the new articles (-8, -400ECF) not to talk about 777F.

Cheers

11fan:
Not being a native english speaker I still can´t make too much sense of your "crow"-postings... :confused:
Anyway, the source for the B777F info should be trustworthy.
Grunf,
ok, you are correct that nobody had the 744BCF on his mind for LHC.
But, as it has been said before - it looks like LHC has moved away from the "big planes" a bit. On this background, B777F would be the more suitable successor to the MD-11F. However, we all have seen such plans overruled by "strategic" decision, in this case by xfer of some LH B744s to LHC as B744BCFs. We´ll have to wait and see, I guess... :)
Cheers,
J.V.

J.V.

Right, didn't consider that.

To eat crow means 'to suffer humiliation', and specifically 'to be forced to admit to having made an error, as by retracting an emphatic statement'.

Regards,
11Fan

Hi Guys!

I would say wait and see. LH Cargo´s future depends somehow on the contract with DHL. If the new deal becomes true there is a chance of buying new B777F and/or B747-8F. The rollover is going to start at 2010 and will be completed 2012 that´s what the actual plan is. I personally think they won´t get the old B744 passenger a/c from the LH Passage.

The LH Passage CEO is going to present the new fleet organisation and which a/c the will buy (B787/A350/etc) in September. The deal with Boeing will effect the cargo deal as well.

Happy Landings!
FlightSafety

Does his role oversee the Sphincter Dept. as well???:}:ouch::suspect:

Hello all.
I mentioned conversions for passenger 400s because LH (together with BA) is , practically, the only remaining big 747 operator that still didn't decided what to do with 747s.

Others are either getting rid of them or converting them into freighters. Slowly but surely.

The question is for LH what after 2010?
Cheers

2010 is still a fair amount of time for now. How does LH plan to win back the German cargo agents? All the big players go to CV/AF/LY/CX/SQ to move their 20T+ machines. They have no choice, but at least seem (in our case) pretty happy with what we do.

I can't remember when LH retired the last -200F, but its been a while. So lets say by 2010, something like 15-20 years out of the market (correct me if I'm wrong). That is a hell of a long time. Almost a generation of 74F experience lost; it will take time to regain a/experience b/trust from the people who pay.

Just my (biased ;) ) 2c worth.

CR2,
If I remember correctly, LHC got rid of the last B742F in summer (August?) 04... So, not tooooo long ago. And it seems to me as if several Atlanta 742Fs exclusively fly on the LHC network.
But: Your comment about the heavy stuff may be correct - then, we´ll see a total u-turn of the LHC management in some years quoting "exciting prospects of the heavy cargo market"... :mad: :ugh:
Good luck to CV! I am always amazed by your network (especially without complaining SLF!) - almost in every backyard of this planet, you run into a LX-_CV 744F... Also met some kind and good engineers in SEA & elsewhere :ok:

11Fan:
Thanks for clarification (and editing your previous message). :ok:
I am always keen on learning sayings/proverbs, as it makes the conversation with the english speaking world much more interesting (my favourite so far: "it´s raining cats & dogs" - how on earth can you get to such a comparison??? :confused: ).
Anyway:
- I just added "to eat crows" to my vocabulary :ok:
- Go on with your proverbs, please!

Regards,
J. V.

JV: Thanks ref 2004, but they (you're company?) had been phasing them out for some time as far as I can remember.

We use Air Atlanta too. Good people, enjoy working with their L/Ms.

Didn't CC buy the LH aircraft & ACMI them back?


Edit: A proverb for you: When pigs fly.. (= its never going to happen).

Cat's and Dogs
 

J.V.

Here's where Google took me.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/raining%20cats%20and%20dogs.html

By the way, thanks for the :ok:

Appreciate it.

11Fan

11Fan,

Fantastic link, thanks a lot! :D


CR2:
Second question: Dunno about contract details, but yes, LHC uses these ships a lot.
First question: Sort of... ;)

J. V.

....... and Jade is looking to add another 6 acft to their fleet!
Now that is outscourcing! Where is Vereinigung Cockpit....

Jade cargo plan
China's Jade Cargo International, which began operations on 5 August, may acquire six more aircraft as part of a fleet expansion. The airline's initial fleet plan comprised six Boeing 747-400ERFs, but another six aircraft could join the fleet from 2009 or 2010. No decision has been made on the type of aircraft to be added.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+in+brief.html

Lh Md11-f
 

LH are about to hand back 1 MD11 back to Gemini , but are looking to replace it with maybe an airraft from World Airways , but they are looking for new types as even the MD11 is getting long in the tooth now , by the time the B777F comes into service alot of MD11's will be nearly 20 years old , alot of MD11 operators now get alot of AOG's from electrical snags

Just to clarify Kitoro Kid's comment, currently LH lease, ACMI deal, 2 MD11s from Gemini for the DHL Joint Venture but these will be replaced as of Winter sked. by 2 from World.

RT

Wow (!) - it´s been almost one year since the last post... :uhoh:

Anyway: I spoke to my friend in LH Cargo some time ago, and he said the MD-11Fs (I suppose he meant the initial batch of fourteen) will stay until around 2013, due to contractual commitments (tax relieve from California or US?).
They are looking at B777Fs nevertheless.

Regards,
J.V.

Fed Ex is very happy with their MD-11 and are converting the 10's to MD-10's (no engineer). After dumping the 380 they have 777's on order. MD's make money for Fed Ex

LH
 

I remember taking a very nice young lady from eldoret to nairobi one day she was a ground ops /despatcher for KQ and she said to me that LH were not happy with the MD11 That was two years ago ,
question now is where will these MD's go

Hmmm, this could be maintenance issue. I know LH Cargo (LH Technik) are screaming for B1/B2 Engineers with the MD11 PW4000/CF6 ratings.

And they are like feckin hens teeth at this point...Particularly the Pratts.
Martinair are also crying out for Engineers. just aren't the guys out there and I'm sure rotable costs are increasing all the time as well

Does the Airbus 330-200F fit in here anywhere?
Just curious.
Be lucky
David