The Truth About Yangtze River Express
 

howdy folks...
Our mission here is to tell the truth about YZR way of life/management/ culture.
Stay away, if you guys wanna have a normal life.
Things are getting worse and worse.

Let's explain just a little...:eek::eek::eek:

Contract wise: don't expect that they will follow the contract. chinese culture is really not into respecting what is written, so, Mr. Zheng (vice-president), use his stupid thinking to disrespect any contract or any pilot, or even any worker over there.

Examples: I just heard that one pilot had a back injury when he was on his way to the airport, and he would call sick before the flight.
This mr. Zheng was yelling at this pilot saying that he didnt want to do the flight, and that he was lying about the injury. (even though, the company's doctor had already check it and authorized the release from the duty).

Money wise: dont expect to get any money before you go to simulators...
from time to times you will have to pay your own hotel room, and when back to shanghai, bring the bills back and wait during months to get the money back. So far, we are here for a long time, and we never saw any payment slip to check if this money was already paid.

Exemples: I heard that one pilot had to call sick at outstation, LUX, and this medical bill suposed to be payd by YZR, according instructions.
six months later, this pilot received the doctor bill at the hotel in LUX, because nobody payd it. He had to pay by him self to avoid any problem at Luxembourg.

Punishment: Expect a lot of it. Socialist country and culture. every single mistake will be deducted from your salary, even if it is not your fault.

Example: I heard that one pilot was at the hotel in LAX, and the hotel change his room and did not wrote it on the crew list. So, the flight was delayed for couple of hours, because nobody new where this pilot was. (of course a HTL fault). And now this mr Zheng wants to charge him about that delay. (I've heard something about US 150,00, but dont know if it is this amount).

Duty Time: Expect a lot of pressure to fly over duty time. They dont care. They push you so hard, that local pilots and some of the taiwanese pilots will keep fliying for days... :D

Example: to protect some pilots I will not put any example here.
But you guys can imagine. :mad:

well, if you guys want more...
private email to me.

cheers and have fun over there.
restless soul

FWIW
 

As a ground-pounder (now), with EXTENSIVE experience in and with 747 cargo operators, I'd like to lend a few observations; perhaps it could help someone.
1 - The flightcrews are virtual carbon copies of most cargo operators; Great guys with more hours and experience than paystubs just trying to hook up with a "winner".
2 - The ground op's tells "the story" of how the company thinks. First, the tech pubs are cheap exact copies of China Airlines (CI). No originality points there. Second, The ground support contracts are sooo splintered that no-one really knows what the hell is going on, even at just one station. Add in certain selectively applied language barriers and "what could possibly go wrong?".
3 - To call their flight schedual "fluid" is grossly over-polite.

The view from the other side of the fence is,,,, hmmmm. Dude, roll the dice again.

sounds nice.
In the company briefing it says: 9 days off monthly, on condition the crewmember does 80 hrs per month. 80hrs in 3 weeks, that sounds a lot.
Another thing: they would accept crewmembers with less than 500hrs PIC, to fly as cruise captain untill you reach these:mad: 500hrs PIC. Any comments on that one?
Ta!

You Guys Never Want To Learn
 

The Management thats running YRE are those brought up under the same culture of China Airlines....
Talk to those ex-CAL expatriates who had got FU***D when they were there.
The latest I heard a long serving Expatriate has got 2 months to retirement( reaching 60). But they deliberately did not want to extent his 2 months extra just to deprive him of the BIG LUMP SUM GRATU I TY . ( The contract spelt out 2X last drawn pay X number of years od service if you finish your service at the 60th birthday).
This Guy is so dedicated an employee with clean record and was even a CHECK Pilot at one time.
Thats bright daylight robbery...
It would'nt be difficult to apply it in Their "motherland" across the straights...

Believe me my fellow pilots comrades....it was also there ( IN CAL ) that contract changes with pages taken out of the master contract and without even the courtesy to tell the hardworking expats...

GOOD LUCK........

YRE and PARC
 

Quick question then...
If it's as bad as its being made out here, why would a head hunter such as PARC take on the contract? Dont' they reportedly have a good reputation to uphold?
What about leaving early in the contract if it's so bad? Anyone do that yet, and if so what was the outcome?
Cheers
LC

Well the rules in china are that you have to pay there loss aswell for the training and other things that they get out of the blue, which may add up to millions, PARC can't do much if you leave the contract early, its all upto the company and you'll be in china, they may not let you out of the country as they all have contacts with the local authorities and customs...

PARC is a company, there like every other business they need to make money to survive this reccession....

Goodluck

I work for YRE and can confirm all that is stated in the original post.

To continue the saga:
* One pilot had to fight for Sick Leave for 3 months before it was finally approved. The YRE staff thought he was lying about his sick leave cuz he planned in advance to take time off with a date set for surgery. They didnt trust the medical documentation, and it wasnt until he sent in photos of him lying on the operating table that his contractual sick leave was approved.
* Another pilot only received $6000 of the $18,000 bonus in his contract since he came to YRE with a CAAC ATPL rating as a Captain from another Chinese carrier. He is currently fighting for this bonus....same Captain that was 'punished' $1500.00 USD for the hotel alert mix-up in LAX.
* Bonus pay is not submitted for approval until months after the contract anniversary date...a problem we will face at the end of our contracts when we return home.
* Fighting for pay each month is routine...whether it be on-time salary, per diem calculated wrong, housing allowance paid late, and travel allowance paid late. One month, because the payroll lady could not make housing allowance deposit to our new Chinese bank accounts, she simply did not pay it, even thou the previous accounts used worked great. We had to fight for a week for this payment.
* Brand new policy will deduct $200 from travel allowance for commuting (Jumpseat) on company aircraft to LAX or LUX for foreign contract pilots still awaiting for these bases to open (as promised in interview)...so now we have to pay to go to work or return home on days off.
* We have no discounted fares on other carriers whatsoever. China Airlines crews can use reduced fares on CAL and retired UAL or NWA crews have reduced fares also, but the rest of us are limited to our cargo flight schedule...which we now have to pay for.
* Pay is deducted for 'punishment' without advisory or knowledge of anything done wrong...and at a subjective scale based on what the Flight Dept Director feels like levying that particular day.
* VAC days (or annual leave) is assigned by the scheduler without request. days off are shifted earlier or later at the scheduler's leisure affecting any plans you may have during your days off.
* Our contracts require us to fly 80 hours per month with 9 days off each month. This leaves 21 days that they fill with BS on the schedule...just to fill it up to show us as 'busy' even though we can fly 3 trips in 14 days easily and log the 80 hours.
* You have to fight to get back-back days off (end of one month - start of next) even thou contracts allow for it.

...more to come later. :ugh:

I can also vouch for what is said here. If anyone is considering working for the Chinese..... DONT. You will regret it. And I specifically say the Chinese. Japan, Korea, Vietnam...you know more about what you are getting. Take for example Korean. At least they tell you there is not upgrades and pay a bit more to compensate. There is more honor in the business practices. Chinese will lie to you and smile. They will punish you. There is no logic, no big picture thinking. Forget about intelligent operating. They will take something out of the manual and totally miss the point and then punish you on it in the simulator because they don't get it. In the end you will just give up and agree with them...just to get out of there...because if you disagree and try to fight...you will be terminated at your next contract rotation. They will quote pension benefits in the contract, but you will never get there as their plan is to terminate you before you get to it so they don't have to pay you. Otherwise they would just let it accumulate and then pay you whenever you leave! There is no concept of positive or intelligent managment. They will sacrifice much later to save a dime now. You will hate it. Beware. I hate to speak like this...but I only speak the truth. If there are some that think this is racist...try working at a Chinese company and see what racism is. I am not the racist, I am only reporting where the racism exists.

Guys,

I can't believe what pussies pilots have become. I might be an old fart but I can assure you 20 to 30 years ago all pilots would have walked off the job. And found creative ways to overcome the held in China against their will bit.

This is the age off pay to fly, pay for your own training and backstab your fellow pilots to get ahead etc etc. And look where it has got all of us. Worsening pay and conditions. We used to be looked upon by society as professional white collar workers such as doctors and lawyers. Today we are relegated to mere machine operators.

Get your bloody spine back and walk tall and start to cost the company millions by uplifting extra fuel, dropping the gear at 60 miles etc and do it as a united team. If they don't get the bloody hint. Park the aircraft at exotic locations and desert en masse.

So stop winging like a bunch of little girls and get to battle stations and teach these dishonest, cheating, lying parasites a lesson.

Wooblah.

Hey Wooblah. I totally agree with you. However tis not as simple. You have guys who have big debts, families, half way to command and will have to start over... bonds, loans to the company... pensions, etc etc... All things that prevent anyone from "walking" suddenly from a job. You ever walked suddenly from a job? You aware of the time and effort it takes to START another job? Unless you already were working on something for a year, then it’s impossible.

You’re basically facing about a year of no income. In other words, we are held hostage not by only the companies we work for, but our own individual circumstances as well. The Chinese are dishonest and disengenuine. They have no ethics. They will tell you will get your command next year and smile and tell you all kinds of things to pull the wool over your eyes and then Jan 1st send you an email that you are terminated. And if you even suggest that we should get it in writing beforehand then you deserve a kick in your reality pants because we all know that NO ONE in the entire world is going to do that.

I fully agree with you tho...that I wish more guys would do exactly as you suggest. A more robust market will cause that to happen. But what do the Chinese do then...then they up the anti temporarily to keep you. Then when business falls...your back in the trash bin. Anyway some of us don't have the luxury of a union legacy carrier. Not everyone gets to work there. Another part of the problem is as pilots we are always held hostage by our training cost and promotions. Managements have learned that they can use this against us.

In other careers this is not possible. As an Accountant for eg, you can just move laterally into a similar position elsewhere. Whereas for us, most places you build seniorities, or have to start years of service for command over again. So as you can see, it’s not so simple. But the more that do as you suggest, the better. Perhaps you can start a global union for us and have an income protection plan for us all to join? Ethics is a 2 way street. Deception is hard to see being that most of us are generally good natured. And parking airplanes and uploading extra fuel etc... LOL. You work for a Unionised legacy don't you? It’s obvious you have never been out of your cushy unionised legacy job. This is a sure fire visit to the office and a black mark on your record. If you turn around on a MEL and they find it’s not necessary they will punish you. It’s a culture thing. Sure they visit the IATA conferences and are polite and all that. But they totally ignore all the wisdom that has been learned over the years and revert to their culture again. You will have a CRM class, and it is spoken over an over "safety is first" but in reality with the Chinese, it is not. Only $$$ is first.

If they need you, you’re safe. But the minute they don't, and you cost more, you’re gone. That’s it. I think the best thing is to not take any jobs there if there are any options. The best thing is to nip it in the bud. Even the desert is better than working for the Chinese. Or Japan or Korea. At least there you know what your getting from the get go and they behave ethically.

Very well said.:ok:
Todays pilots, it seems, have no backbone.

Three cheers for Wooblah. :D

Well said Wooblah! Good on you but not many are able to think like you, mate! :ok:

Dear Wayyyoutthere,

I think you’re talking to the wrong pensioner here. I have been to every **** hole imaginable on this earth. But have never paid to fly, paid for my training, backstabbed my fellow pilots or taken unnecessary crap from management.

Many years ago an unscrupulous employer decided to unilaterally cut our pay by 50% for no apparent reason. The company was doing fine at the time he was just a greedy sloth, and thought because he had tons of applications he could dictate terms and replace those that left “Trouble Makers” Well I voted with my feet and left. Heavily in debt and with a family to support. I flipped burgers, mowed lawns and did what ever it took to feed the family and pay the bills. I was fighting a loosing battle. I cursed my Father who had instilled in me from a young age the values of honesty, integrity and mate ship. I actually wished I had kissed ass and licked balls. How stupid could I be!

Well one day my father visited and I related the mess I was in. He as usual blabbed his usual pearls of wisdom. “Well son when one door closes another one opens, stick by your guns and you will end up with like minded people with like minded values” He also gave me 1,000 bucks which was a lot for him as he was not a rich man.

Not long after this event I was recognized at an interview as one of the panel members had also voted with his feet and was hired with below minimum requirements solely because of the action I had taken at the previous company. This event took me over the years to the left seat of the 747 where I shall retire shortly.

In my career I have dedicated myself to helping the younger generation and will always go the extra mile to assist a struggling FO. (Payback for the goodness bestowed to me) I have seen all types come stay or go. I have seen the wingers and the gold diggers the backstabbers and I have also seen personalities with honesty, integrity and fortitude.

But overall the crews that really stuck together and trusted each other always made for an atmosphere of honesty and integrity with relation to the management. We didn’t ask for much. Just that which was promised to us in good faith within the contracts we signed. Nothing more nothing less! And management knew we would stick together and hence we have always received our daily dues plus some incremental improvements that actually saved the company money.

Wooblah.

Great post Capt. Wooblah, Sir!

:ok:

It does my heart good to see people make it through an entire career of "Baptisms of Fire" and still keep things in perspective.

Bravo.

:cool:

China
 

China is different but I have to say that I really like it here. Just reading about some of the things about YRE and can only say that I'm glad i'm at Shenzhen Airlines. Although there are two sides to every situation, China has been good to me and my family flying at Shenzhen. Do you homework about the positions and don't be afraid to ask the recruiting companies to give you contacts of actual pilots flying for the airline. They are going to give you a much better view of how things a really are.

Hi I'm thinking of applying to Yangtze River Express, 3 year contract as 744 FO. I've read all these posts but has anyone got any fresh stories about their operations? Are the same mgmt team still running a dodgy operation etc etc?
Any info would be great!

Cheers, Onsched

wtf, why are you still there? Were there no vacancies at Arik?

This beggars belief, are pilots so desperate that they will work under such conditions?

I can't wait for the 'more to follow'...........

RUN,, run far,, run fast....
This is the 747 cargo definition of FUBAR. See my above post.

NOTHING has changed on the ground side,, and talking to the pilots,, most are moon-lighting CI crews.

If you are really so desperate to fly heavys or to build time,, may I be so bold as to recommend any of the african bottom-feeders.. No contract and you get paid in fat envelopes.
Again,, FWIW
--heracles

I applied for a job at this company and they offered a 737 S/O position which in the future could be upgraded to a 737 F/O position. What does a 737 S/O actually do?