What a nice thought, however sorry to p*** on your party but registration could be somewhat problematic. The Guppy is a one off and getting her certified anywhere acceptable to UK authorities would be very difficult unless the Irish will have her back. I think her future lies on a flag of convienience registration.
Though anything can happen after refusing for years to register CV-580, Hercules and Electras apparently because of their engine fire extinguishing arrangements the did a swift 180 degree and back track.
Now if Lockheed hadn't forced the RB211s to be carried 3 at a time on Herks and used Conroy Guppies 5 a time for Tristar production the other 4 Guppies would have been built....................................................... ..............................................
Hello Nurse medication time is it?
Be lucky
David

The standard 44 was very practical for night freight. The French post office used one for ages out of Orly. Could take up to 20 Friendship containers, achieving quick turnrounds by using two hi-loaders back to back at the swingtail.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.

Hmm... I'm not sure about the last bit, having lived near EMA for a few years...controllers used to give Merchantmen their own noise abatement tracks if working on easterly departures.

Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.

r

Tis abit sad that the Guppy has `roosted` in the UK for such a long time, US reg, Irish reg, etc, etc and yet the chances of it earning its keep in the UK now seem to be all gone. Hope we all get some notice of its departure from Hurn - would be nice to see her once more in the air.....

The four Tynes on a Merchantman seemed to have a higher frequency sound than those on the 44. The Merch props are smaller and probably operated at a higher RPM than the 16' props on the Canadair, which has a much deeper rumble from the more powerful prop/engine combination.
As for carrying RB211 engines, the problem surely is one of bulk, not weight. The heaviest RB211, (the 524-d4) weighs 4480kgs.
I am sure the Guppy can take 25tons out of EMA on an isa day.

I can't really answer that one I have no idea what an RB-211 on its trolly weighed. I am however quite prepared to believe that Saturn got a very serious discount on their Herks, the basic maths never added up as the fuel burn on a Herk is greater than the Guppy and you got three RB-211s on each Herk flight whereas 5 per flight was planned for the CL-44O. 5 Herks to get 15 engines to Palmdale or 3 CL-44 Os to do the same:uhoh: You figure it out. Except of course look who the RB-211s were for Lockheed Corporation Tristarsand who makes Hercules?Lockheed Corporation I dont think Jack Conroy ever saw a level playing field much less got to play on one.
Be lucky
David
Perhaps one of our Derby based contributors can throw some light on the weight angle ?

Depending on the model the RB211 engine weighed between 7000 and nearly 10000 lbs. Not sure the weight of a transit frame, etc.
Would they be moved dry or with fluids....?

RB211 figures
 

Some weights here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-R...ng_Particulars

Trolley or frame not included of course.
No indication as to whether this is just the engine, or a fully built powerplant.

RB 211 Figures
 

Gentlemen,
Being one of the former 'Limey' Members of the Transamerica (TV) Ops Control group during those 'wonderful' years, I can confirm that TV operated the L-100-300 Herks EGNX-BIKF-CYFB/CYVP-CYWG-KPMD carrying 3 RB211s per trip.
These 3 engines brought the Herk up to MXZFWT to the extent that TV had to pre-position spare wheels, radios, etc. at each en-route airport as they couldn't be carried on the aircraft (wonder if those spares are still there?)!
Anyway, the worst sector for flight planning was BIKF-CYFB/CYVP(?) as the nearest alternate was CYYR! Had the occasional divert to BGSF due prevailing winds!
Ah, what fun! Adding to the fun was caring for a bunch of B747s, DC-10-30s, DC-8-73s and L-188s! Wonderful:ok: !
Bring back 'The Good Old Days'!
Cheers
thetexpat

I don't know the sector lengths, but your RZFWT must have been around 110,000lbs on the l100-30 with 3 rb1211s. Could get over 20 tons of fuel on with that load.
What was the limiting and regulating factor, the MLWT or a RTOW?

I am trying to understand more, as to why the Guppy was such a viable project.

Nineiron
 

As you're aware, it was many years (decades:eek: !) ago that we performed these flights!
Based upon the following information from the SAFAIR website
(http://www.safair.co.za/)
Weight
Maximum certified take-off weight 70 307kg (155 000lbs)
Maximum certified landing weight 61 235kg (135 000lbs)
Maximum certified zero fuel weight 57 727kg (127 000lbs)
Basic empty weight 34 545kg ( 76 000lbs)
Average APS weight 35 000kg ( 77 000lbs)
I'd say it was the MXLWT!
That would leave you with approx 4tons of fuel at destination. Not too much if you have to divert to CYYR, a distance of 779mls!:uhoh: !
G/C distance is 1373 per http://gc.kls2.com/
Cheers
thetexpat

Just had a look at my old TMAC loading manual (yes, I'm one of those sad people that has a full attic!)
Heres some figures for comparison
MTOWT 210,000
MLWT 165,000
MZFW 160,000
Guppy basic weight 98,500
APS Fr/Lr config. 102,000
Therefore maxload 58,000
So with 3x 10,000lb RB 211 engines on board it could land with about 15 tons of fuel. The cargo bay is 84' long (with another 14' in the swingtail) . It would have been able to manage 5 engines and land with about the same amount of fuel as the L100.
Politics and the loss of the aircraft in Anchorage put a stop on the second Guppy being built.

Those Hercs. used to roll and roll. I also seem to recall that the RB211s were a very tight fit..

To correct the thread drift, and by contrast, an Aer Turas CL44 out of Castle Donington, with a lone racehorse on board, rotated way before the first intersection on 28 (as it was then).

Amazing. Wind straight down the runway, but not too strong. It almost like watching a very large motor glider, with about the same nose level. What a graceful aeroplane!

Why do politics and commercial shenanigans kill off the best machines?

r

The J model really was a beautiful looking aeroplane. A racehorse indeed.
Those extra few feet made a big difference to the cockpit noise level which added to the 'grace and pace' feeling. Had to remember the extra length when taxying though!

Do any of you remember Tony Ahmad (RIP) or Paul Horsting (very ill) ? Have many hours in my logbook flying with them.

I think I've found a CL-44J survivor at Tripoli International
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0642391/L/
Google earth 32 39 35.37 N 13 09 44.74 E a quick cut and paste in the flyto box and decend to 250' agl.
Does anyone know if she is still there
Be lucky
David

The CL44 in Libya is a 'D4' model not a 'J'. It was ex Transvalair/Tradewinds I believe.
Last I heard the dump was due to be cleared for airport development. Interestingly the Brazzaville aircraft is also ex UAA/Transvalair.

I remember seeing one of the T-A-R 44's at LGW and have some photos of it taken with my then brand new Olympus OM1. I once flew with BAF from Southend to Ostend and on that Saturday they had Carvair G-ASDC a leased in Alidair Viscount G-AVIW and a CL44 flying the route. We got the Carvair and the Viscount so sadly I never got to fly in a 44,

The CL44-D4 at Tripoli last flew in 1981. Upon arrival the only snag was a u/s oil pressure gauge. Somehow the a/c became a source of spares for the other two. By 1983 ( the last time i saw her, parked by the GA area ) she was just a bare shell. Nice to see the old girl still survives, together with a couple of 707`s, also possibly ex United African Airlines. Happy memories of a sometimes difficult time in North Africa, and regions further south........:cool:

wasn't the Canuck Argus MPA some sort of Britannia derivative?

The Argus MPA was an `adapted` brit fitted with wright turbo-compound engines - one held the recorded for un refuelled flight - 31 hours till one of those plastic planes took the record.

I have it on good authority that the Guppy is to be registered RP-C-8023
For service with Heavylift in Australia.
Be lucky
David

Interesting
 

All I can say is very interesting, on an earlier thred I did suggest the aircraft going to Heavylift in Australia to join the Belfast.

To remind some of us this is where the second Belfast which is being prepared for flight at the moment at Southend is destined for so, if the information is correct there must be a lot of oversized work going on down under.

Good to see there is life in the old dogs yet as the saying goes.:ok: :ok:

How many aircraft built today will be still able to earn money in 2051?
The Guppy has ventured out of the hangar after an engine change and inspection, and has been seen (and heard) doing a high speed run on the BOH runway. The airframe first took to the sky 45 years ago (as a D4-2) and it looks like it will be back in its natural element before the new year.

Is it coming to SEN ?

Which is now of course, famous for its new routes to Aussieland.

:E :E :E :E

Airborne
 

Sounds good to hear how well things are going with the aircraft before we know it will be airborne with a new certificate to fly going to pastures new.

If the aircraft is on the way to Aurstralia there must be the work out tfor this type of aircraft as well as the Belfast at Southend which is due to go there when it is fit for flight.

Perhaps a clue
 

Learned contributors,
Heavylift Cargo 727-51C RP-C8017, which was previously registered 9L-LFJ, has been based at the former Clarke AFB cargo hub since recent reregistration. Could this be why RP-C was chosen for the guppy. Their other B727 remains 9L registered as does the first Belfast.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

Please excuse ignorance on this but when was her last flight as 9G-LCA
Much appreciated
Be lucky
David

Thought to have last taken to the air August 2003

Can't confirm August, but can say it did a glorious low level airtest across Dorset on the afternoon of Good Friday (18.4) that year.
Freeman

What is the status of the Guppy now. I was under the impression that BASCO where working on it. I seem to recall BASCO were intending to cease trading on 22 December.............

Although I can't confirm the August flight, 9G-LCA carried an airtest over Dorset on the afternoon of Good Friday (18.4) that year, which included a glorious pass over Blandford Forum.

On 22nd of this month RP-C8023 was sat outside BASCos.

Freeman.

Have the fuel leaks been fixed?

I understand from the Engineer involved with the mx at BOH that a team was bought in to do the fuel leaks and after lots of work the fuel leaks were fixed!
Good luck guys. I am sure the old girl could go skywards again:ok:

The only alternative was to include the fuel leaks in the performance graphs.

As I understand it the guppy has no type certificate not even a BS one like the Belfast. How will it be operated?

The certification would be the responsibility of the country of registration. As far as the CAA is concerned a Type (ie one of a series) certificate was issued 13th June 1969 (ARB ref FA3) The variant D4 was added as this was the only variant on the UK register. The -0 and the -J models were never added. There is only one CL44-0 variant, it is unique, so it could hardly be regarded as a supplemental 'Type' anyway, whereas the Belfast is a Series Type in its own right, a military aircraft that was 'civilized'.
I would think that CAP733 Permit to Fly, para 1.3, would cover the Guppy's present situation.

CL44 Guppy Departure BOH Monday 15th ?
 

This was posted on the Flying Tiger Website last night: As some of you know, she was within a week of being scrapped when a white knight came along and rescued her. The white kight came in the form of a heavy lift Australian airline that plans to use her in Australia and for inter island carriage in the Southwest Pacific. She has been sitting on the ramp at a Bournemoth, England maintenance facility for about 5-6 years. The facility finally ordered her removed or be scrapped so the reprieve came just in time. The engines have been run several times and she's been taxi tested. The avionics are all working now but that was a problem. Sitting on the ramp at a costal city took it's toll. Some canon plugs had to be completely re-pinned. An engine was found in Africa so the #1 engine was replaced. Another engine will be picked up enroute to Cairns, Australia. The Planned routing will be through Middle East with a few stops. The center tank, tank 6, will not be used so range will be reduced. The -44 is a very long range airplane so this shouldn't be a problem and should still provide a range of 3-4 thousand miles. The Captain has over 10,000 hours in the plane. The FO has little -44 experience but the engineer has thousands of hours. The crew's average age is 67. Malcolm will accompany the flight as Loadmaster. He has over 15,000 hours in the -44. In a brief email today, he told me that she's ready to fly and his bags are packed. Perhaps they're a bit ahead of schedule; the departure from Bournemouth had been set for the 15th. They plan to takeoff and remain in the area long enough to determine that all systems are up to the task and, if so, they plan to head for Australia. She now has Philippine registry RP-C 8023. She was N447T when we flew her prior to being converted into a guppy.

Full text: http://www.flyingtigerline.org/_06/00000617.htm

Any comments and confirmations welcome...

Swingtail,
Thanks for a very informative first post. Welcome to PPRuNe.
Be lucky
David

Well Done Guys.
Where about's in the Middle East you planning to stop?
You know where I am operating from at the moment and perhaps we could all meet up for a beer:ok: