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-   -   Cargolux details requested! (https://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/205896-cargolux-details-requested.html)

Aeroshizzle 9th Apr 2017 10:57


Originally Posted by hawkeye red (Post 9732457)
Well...I'm just one of the guys having to guide you and others with very limited experience around the world....

Great, looking forward to your guidance.

Question: what do you think is a good experience to have to start Cargolux?

hawkeye red 9th Apr 2017 13:44

....a lot lot more than you have....

Aeroshizzle 9th Apr 2017 15:12


Originally Posted by hawkeye red (Post 9734032)
....a lot lot more than you have....

Luckily for me, you're not doing the recruitment :ok:

See you real soon captain

AERO75 9th Apr 2017 16:18


Originally Posted by hawkeye red (Post 9734032)
....a lot lot more than you have....

Chuck Yeager is it you?

hawkeye red 10th Apr 2017 00:50

The reason you got in is because experienced and qualified guys will not work under the conditions offered - you were not hired because of your qualifications, but rather as a simple sign of supply and demand....

Aeroshizzle 10th Apr 2017 08:05


Originally Posted by hawkeye red (Post 9734455)
The reason you got in is because experienced and qualified guys will not work under the conditions offered - you were not hired because of your qualifications, but rather as a simple sign of supply and demand....

Ouch that hurt :=
I hope you put your request not to fly with juniors, would not want to be such a burden to you.

buzzc152 10th Apr 2017 09:10

Would someone mind telling me how much an FO makes on top of the basic salary. I've been invited to assessment but really surprised at how low the starting salary is. It's a significant pay cut on my current job, but perhaps per diems, duty pay etc boosts it to a more realistic level ?

Hank Moody 10th Apr 2017 09:50


Originally Posted by buzzc152 (Post 9734658)
Would someone mind telling me how much an FO makes on top of the basic salary. I've been invited to assessment but really surprised at how low the starting salary is. It's a significant pay cut on my current job, but perhaps per diems, duty pay etc boosts it to a more realistic level ?

Dear buzzc, please see my previous post on this tread. Coming to cargolux go get the bucks is a No go. But if you live close by or have other personal reason. I would say that makes more sense.

baerj146 10th Apr 2017 13:17


Originally Posted by Hank Moody (Post 9734686)
Dear buzzc, please see my previous post on this tread. Coming to cargolux go get the bucks is a No go. But if you live close by or have other personal reason. I would say that makes more sense.

Off course because getting a 747 type rating is something that you get at every street corner...

If the aim of your life is to make money then you chose the wrong job!

Indrapoera 10th Apr 2017 17:17

Aeroshizzle
 

Originally Posted by Aeroshizzle (Post 9734618)
Ouch that hurt :=
I hope you put your request not to fly with juniors, would not want to be such a burden to you.


With your 2200 hours Avro time you should be ok, however you need to realise that not that long ago guys joining typically had around 5000+ hours 737/320 and in some cases substantial PIC time (that was the case in my TR group at least). However with the current deal they (apparently) don't find these type of candidates anymore..

Having said that, back in the early 2000's there was a whole bunch hired with 1500 hours turboprop, all of whom have become real nice and competent commanders. So even though hawk eye has a point, it's a question of supply and demand, you should take these comments with a pinch of salt and don't worry too much:E:ok:

Cliff Secord 10th Apr 2017 19:21

Aeroshizzle. I wouldn't worry.

2000 jumbolina is a good starting block. An older 4 engine underpowered jet, flying into smaller airports- that is some good experience. No one was born knowing LH. Its one of those things where you have to get round the houses a few times to see how it's done, like any job in any industry. You don't pick these things up in a book or even 5000 hours pic in a piglet - it's one of those things, you do it for years you're gonna see some things and pick up the little quirks of the gig. Some crusty old gits in this industry make life harder than it needs be.

People having ago at experience is really a bent for their true frustration. That lower houred recruits are a sign that the terms and conditions have been damaged. This I have total sympathy for. That's not your fault though.

hawkeye red 12th Apr 2017 04:24

"With your 2200 hours Avro time you should be ok, however you need to realise that not that long ago guys joining typically had around 5000+ hours 737/320 and in some cases substantial PIC time (that was the case in my TR group at least). However with the current deal they (apparently) don't find these type of candidates anymore..

Having said that, back in the early 2000's there was a whole bunch hired with 1500 hours turboprop, all of whom have become real nice and competent commanders. So even though hawk eye has a point, it's a question of supply and demand, you should take these comments with a pinch of salt and don't worry too much"

When we hired 1500 hour prop guys back then it was because we could not get any qualified people - they were not on the market. They were all given extensive training, we had our fair share of firm land (some in the category of hard landings), virtually turning the company into a flight school. Today there are plenty of experienced and even type rated guys on the market, but they would never work under these conditions.
You can argue that 2000 on an RJ is enough - out of experience I disagree, and there is IMHO no doubt that Cargolux is playing with fire, when hiring less experienced guys like aeroshizzle....

final06 12th Apr 2017 06:58

1 Attachment(s)
Like the one in LBV?
Wrinkled hull and structure, almost a write off. :}

hawkeye red 12th Apr 2017 09:02

Thanks final06....I believe that proves my point....

Intrance 12th Apr 2017 23:07

Yes, because someone with 15000 hours, but maybe 5-10 landings a month in a busy year, could never run the risk of making a hard landing... :ugh:. Good attitude for experienced drivers, "it won't happen to me because I have more than 5000 hours, must be just the newbies" :E.

hawkeye red 13th Apr 2017 00:13

Intrance...I'm not sure if you know how correct you are. I doubt it....

Cliff Secord 13th Apr 2017 00:22

Hawk eye

I'm calling a certain amount of BS on your post. The Jumbo is just an aeroplane. What is it about 5000 pic that makes it enough? Why not 6000? What about those turboprops or regionals those kids joined. Should they not ask for 5000 hours pic time for the right seat too then?

No one came from the womb knowing how to fly the jumbo. I agree that straight out of flight school from a Seneca is hella way no. But at some point your 5000 PIC hour 737 dude perhaps maybe a little institutionalised and even find it harder to adopt than a guy who's naturally talented to learn with less experience, maybe 2-3000 hours flying around the strips in a small jet who's more like a sponge soaking this guff up. I think there's a tendency to gloss over the fact that everyone takes time to learn to land a new aircraft if they've not flown. Try landing a turboprop after coming off a jumbo. You'll look like a dick the first few times. Suck it up. It's called doing something new. We've all done it.

I agree some varied level of experience is a good thing when relevant and proportionate. But it's clownary to say you need experience for at random xyz level with some pic on xyz type for the right seat and that's it. No one would do anything in this job as no one would ever have the experience to start. This jobs full of people making up their own minds what relevant experience is without ever having been in the others shoes and seeing what they've been through.

A hard landing proves nothing. Plenty experienced drivers have driven these things into mountains. Careful with that supposition.

Attitude and crap crm are worse than experience levels. Whats worse a new bloke who is unsure and asks or a crusty old arse burger who thinks he knows but won't be asked without giving back attitude?

But I really call out the BS that you need to be some sort of mega astronaut PIC experienced God to fly LH. I'm a LH LS driver and it seems once people make it onto LH they develop short memories and some sort of a God complex. At least keep it real and say what's really bothering you. In a company the terms got slammed. Been there. It's a crap cake. The sooner pilots stop bitching about the symptoms as if they're the problem and tackle what is really at stake the sooner the root cause is focused on.

final06 13th Apr 2017 06:15


Originally Posted by Cliff Secord (Post 9738274)
I'm a LH LS driver... bla bla bla

How nice for you.:D

By the nonsense you are writing it is pretty obvious that you are not flying for CLX and thus don't understand the complexity of our operation.

Why do you (and a few others) try to put us in the "old man bad attitude bad crm" corner when we point out some very valid points?

Bad attitude is more often a problem on the RHS.

Some of the 200 hr wonderkids now got 2000 hrs and they are still convinced they are special and gods' gift to aviation.

Instead of behaving like real men they behave like pussies.

They show all symptons of modern society kids raised by overprotecting parents and are sometimes not even able to take a simple roster change without crying.

Or they follow the order of their girlfriend and report sick when their roster plans them to fly to some "not so nice" destination.

The list is quite long actually.

Due to the problems we have by hiring low experience levels, at least our Head of Training finally understood that CLX cannot lower the entry requirements endlessly.

Intrance 13th Apr 2017 16:16

Probability is high that you won't be put into that "old man bad attitude/CRM" if there is no premature judgement going on here about someone with 2000+ hours joining...

I'd suggest to leave that judgement until they are in the seat next to you if you don't want to be generalized the same way.

hawkeye red 13th Apr 2017 16:29

#final06...the next beer is on me...spot on...:D


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