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-   -   Cargolux details requested! (https://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/205896-cargolux-details-requested.html)

xavierb 22nd Apr 2010 02:27

Funny to see that the same old guys (Commited 2 stay, From dusk II dawn) spending so much time on this website, year after year. That tells you how much time they spend in hotels, getting bored!!

Some of the guys here just want to pretend they have the best job on earth. Good for them if they believe it. I left CV 3 years ago, and don't get me wrong, it's not a bad job. If it wasn't the rosters, wich sometimes change daily.. But it's not THE job!!!
Off days: flightwatch tells te true: Fix Off days are a block of 6+ 1 rest every 4 weeks. Not 10 or 11. You indeed get another 4 days Off within the 28 days period, but not fix, can be moved any time.
Salary: When cosmicray says"being off duty for 180 days a year for a (net) FO salary higher than most captains in Europe", that's B.S. Most Cpt salaries in Europe are around 6000 or 7000 €. And a CV F/O, after the first year, can expect 4000.
F/O salary 5000? Not exactly.You don't start at 5000. It would take quite many years to reach that . You start as Jr F/O, with 3600€. After 4 years, I was making (3 years ago, basic now a bit higher, but no bonus..) 4400 + the 13th month+ the bonus, if any. The total was then 5100, after Lux taxes, a year with a good bonus. But that's all included. You also get good and almost free healtcare, education, pension,and child allowances on top.
Still a very decent package, IMHO, but not as good as some guys here say...
Money wise, roster wise, days off wise, you can find better. I did. Same a/c for an asian carrier.
Do I miss CV?
- I miss some destinations: excellent network
- I miss the fact you can take your family with you, for free.
- Of course, I miss some very nice chaps flying there (Hi guys!!)

But I don't miss the soooo many roster changes, the soooo many times I was totally exhausted, the heavy conflict btwn management and pilots, the 10-12 years time for upgrade, the 4 consecutive Xmas away from home (strictly seniority), ... fed up!

So, IMHO, CV is still a good option for those who want to visit the planet and fly the big whale, with a decent income, especially if you are single/ no kids. In that case, you'll like the job, at least for some times.

But you should know there is a life after cv: my quality of life is now much better, the only long lay-overs I have now are at home, more days at home, more money,.....

See you chaps!


Pow-wow 22nd Apr 2010 06:59

xavierb...A lot must have changed in the 3 years you have been gone, because I started 2 years ago, and already earn quite a bit more than your figures...in fact I am getting close to those "Captain salaries" you published for Europe!!!

As you will see in this thread, time and time again, what suits one person, doesīnt necessarily suit the next.
I love this job and think I have a much better quality of life than before, AND I have wife and kids.

Of cause some people will always make a job look better, but then OTHERS will always make it look worse.
I still have to see the aviation job that has perfect rosters and working conditions.
Any job is what you make of it.
I think its great that you changed jobs, because by the sound of it, you were not happy at all. That is, IMHO the time to change, because you will just make yourself and your collegues miserable otherwise !

As for me, as I said, I am very happy here.
Oh, and I am not one of those same old guys you mentioned...happy landings:ok:

rwy24center 22nd Apr 2010 14:52

@ XavierB

May I ask who you are flying for now?
Did you manage to go to one of the national carriers?

DHC6to8 22nd Apr 2010 18:24

This is all very interesting
This is all very interesting and I really appreciate the fact that Xavier has helped clear some air out.... I just want to pitch my own two cents in... I did the selection back in 2006 and I liked what was being offered and the fellows I met seemed to be a good bunch... I actually thought this could be for me and it was offered to me... then, while in the hotel I took a good long hard look at two former colleagues that had gone to CargoLux earlier and I was shocked at what I saw... we are all the same age and about the same physical size... here we were sitting and having a beer and it looked like I was sitting with two old men, one looked half dead and the other looked like a cancer victim.... I saw the paystubs, heard the stories both good and bad... and the one common denominator was that they both felt tired all the time.... and suffered health problems.... I decided after that meeting that I would like to live a little longer, be home for Christmas and watch my three children grow up.... so I said no to the offer and went back home.... sure, it would have been nice to fly the whale... see a little more of the world perhaps.... but being tired and looking like I am half dead did not appeal to me enough to go and earn a couple of Euros more per month... the pay increase just did not outweight my desire to have a life at home with my family and perhaps live longer... people forget that flying the long haul exposes you to higher levels of radiation, longer times of exposure to climaticized dry air etc etc and the crossing of numerous time zones all add up to a posibly reduced life span.... not to mention the empty bed at home sydrome that can infiltrate marriages... the one friend having the beer ended up divorced because his wife couldn't take it any longer... she wanted somebody at home more than what the CargoLux schedule would allow. So, all this boils down to the fact that this life style is not for everybody.... perhaps for some years while you are young and not married... so if it works for you, enjoy it.... I envy those who can make it work.... but, on the other hand, I have a great life that works well with my great job....
fly safe no matter where you are...

ray cosmic 22nd Apr 2010 18:55

I think xavier works for KAL, correct?

Sure enough life can be tough, but if I compare with some of my short haul buddies I'm better off. The pay I quoted was after tax in LUX and no bs. Anyhow, with so many pages of info in this thread you can basically figure out the life in CV. What makes a huge difference is whether you commute or not. If you live close by, changes are much easier to deal with and quality time a home better.

HURZ 22nd Apr 2010 22:22

Iīm now 15 years with this company. The big package is quite good, however like in any company there is room for improvement. Ofcourse, the grass is always greener in the neighbours garden, but when you look closer.... I also considered KAL and EK as an option for change but in EK you are imho just a slave with no rights at all and in KAL (I think much better then EK) you are on a 5 year contract and Iīm still to young for a contractor life. Maybe itīs fine later. I have family and do commute. Commuting works out fine most of the time, but to be honest I have to pay the price and lose 20 + days per year since I decided not to life in LUX. Well, but thatīs the price me and my familiy are willing to pay to life at the most beautiful place (our home). Schedulechanges are part of our business and I and my family got used to it.... It can be a pain in the ass, but never forget who pays your salary and when everything is normal(no crises or volcano) you hardly see major schedule changes. In CV most of us got to know the "spirit of cargolux". This spirit was almost destroyed some years ago, but somehow it came back during the crises and erverybody did whatever he could in order to help out. When you join CV you donīt just join a company, you join a lifestyle that can be very good when you have a partner who understands the CV freight dogs life. When he/she dosnīt understand it might be time to look for a new partner....:eek:
Those who left CV, some to go back to short haul life, others to a LR start-up, most for a "quick upgrade", I fully understand. However it proved that the quick upgrade, most guys were lookin for, didnīt come since some companys got shut down like OASIS (hi xavier Iīm sorry that it didnīt work), or EK could not keep their promis due to recession.
I never regreted my decision to join CV, however there have been times I was somehow unhappy but in the end it returned to the good. Either youīll love or dislike this company. There is no in between. For me the fist applies and CV became more than just the place where I earn my money.... but never forget it can take 5 or more years to adopt to this very special CV lifestyle...

All the best in decision making,


LBR 26th Apr 2010 22:30

So if people spend some time writing about the company they work for and aswering questions it automatically means they are bored?
What makes you think that some of the guys here just want to pretend they have the best job on earth.
Could it be that they really think they're luckey to have the job you walked away from?
Yes, roster changes do happen sometimes.
But hey, I don't care if my Asia trip is changed into a US of A trip.
When they let you work on the floating off days you will get them back in the next unpublished roster.
There's also the often used possibility to get them as overtime which is quite attractive...
Regarding the salary, it really depends on your family situation and where you pay your tax but the numbers shown in this thread are pretty much correct.
Checked my payslips from a couple of years ago and as second year co-pilot I had €4942 gross per month and nett more then what I used to have as a leftseater in a Dutch lowcost company with 16 years of service...
I'm sorry the Oasis adventure didn't work out.
Really didn't expect them to go belly up so soon.
Hope you're happy where you are now.
Is that KAL?

Tank2Engine 27th Apr 2010 06:08

Good to hear some contrarian points from xavierb and DCH6to8.

As has been discussed by some, flying long haul cargo is not everybody's cup of tea.

For myself it's been a very good move, coming from short haul airline with a rostering practice that was killing me faster than a speeding bullet. ;)

I took a good long hard look at two former colleagues that had gone to CargoLux earlier and I was shocked at what I saw... we are all the same age and about the same physical size... here we were sitting and having a beer and it looked like I was sitting with two old men, one looked half dead and the other looked like a cancer victim....
Mind you, these people you'll find in every aspect of aviation. As has been pointed out earlier, a lot has to do with the fundamentals of long haul versus short haul, but a lot also depends on the kind of life you lead. How much partying or sports you do and if you commute or not. Going out for a beer once in a while, or not being a world class athlete is no problem, and neither is commuting, but you have to do it sensibly. That count for both in short and long haul by the way. Unfortunately some colleagues are leading a very unhealthy lifestyle and/or have a hectic commuting lifestyle trying to save pennies by not getting a decent crash-pad near LUX. The later group spends a lot of time hanging around in the ETAP on the airport, counting down the hours (or perhaps even reducing their rest or selling off days!) in order to get back on the next trip again, or they are p!ssed off that they missed the last flight home.

The name of the game is having a good think over what you're signing up for. It's not just about flying a 747 and a reasonable paycheck. Trust me, the 747 is a cool airplane but at the end of the day it's just another big aluminium tube with wings and engines on it. For as far as coming here just for the money: the money is okay, but in many low-cost airlines you can become captain much quicker which will translate into earning a lot more.

Joining CLX is more about a lifestyle that has to suit you. Don't come here if you want to sleep in your own bed every night, have a girlfriend/wife that needs a 'personal assistant' 24/7 next to her side, or you want to have a fixed roster that you can plan lightyears in advance. If you like to see more than just the tarmac of airports, have some sensible ideas about (possibly) commuting, long haul etc and are flexible then Cargolux is the place for you! :ok:

Walter Sobchak 28th Apr 2010 22:19

Balanced view from Tank2Engine. Sums it up pretty well and works fine for me.
Today Iīll go for a beer though.

whazitdoinnow 29th Apr 2010 12:25

Xavier is not at KAL.

Pow-wow 29th Apr 2010 19:49

Hey...it doesīnt matter where xavierb is...as long as he/she is happy...:ok:

fly744 29th Apr 2010 23:29

Captain's Salary
By the way guys,what is the net monthly, captains-salary with CV?

burgerking 30th Apr 2010 17:09

forget about that. No upgrades for a long time now - instead they hire parc contractors and now even a guy with allegedly zero 744 time for the left seat.

feels great for our FOīs

rwy24center 1st May 2010 01:41

Italian DEC...
Obviously the guy from ENAC in Italy who is responsible for Cargolux Italia "asked" Cargolux to hire his nephew as DEC.

The Pilot Association is taking legal action.

I can also imagine that not too many Copilots will actually fly with this guy. Either they refuse because it is illegal according to our regulations or they simply report sick in case they are rostered together with this aviation enthusiast.

The ENAC guy will face charges of corruption according to italian law.

Problem solved.

papazulu 1st May 2010 23:17

The ENAC guy will face charges of corruption according to italian law.
U gotta be KIDDING, right? :eek:

Sorry to rain on your parade, mate but "corruption" and "italian law" are words that CANNOT fit in the same sentence.

PZ :mad:

HURZ 2nd May 2010 15:18

Easy now
:= FDTD step on the brakes-NOW. It is only a very few of guys selling their off days.....

If you are bitter talk to the guys yourself.... You know who they are. Or are you really thinking every captain is selling off days???:ugh::ugh:In the end it comes to our management.... to hire or not...

However, the union and F/Oīs have to watch the number of parcies will remain at a "reasonable" level and that the italian Berlusconi mentality does not come to LUX...


tungsteno 3rd May 2010 10:10

aahhhh psandb! thanks god there are still true italian machos like you who keep the name and pride of our nation high all over the world! you forgot to mention that all those who speak again against italians will all find a horse head inside their cars tomorrow morning....:yuk:

GreekPilot747 3rd May 2010 12:31

Keep this thread clean please.
Since you guys are having a thread about this over in the italian forum

here: http://www.pprune.org/italian-forum/...allestero.html

May I suggest to keep this very informative, more than 4 year old, highly rated thread free of horseheads, saliva and nationalist displays of superiority.

What goes for this thread, should also go for our company. It is a workingplace, where more than 20 nationalities are flying together, professionally and with respect for each other.

We want to keep it this way.

Thank you!

PS: very interesting opinions voiced in the italian thread...

Airbus_a321 3rd May 2010 14:00

where more than 20 nationalities are flying together,
are there also Italiens among those 20 nationalities...:)

16down2togo 3rd May 2010 16:49

Yes, and very good ones, and they joined the company the proper way!

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