UPS buys TNT!
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Polax52, in this wonderful European world of ours, are the cabotage flights that UPS are seeking legal?
What about taxation? Are USA based crews ready to pay European tax? Are you aware that present expat flight crew have to monitor the number of days they spend in Europe? Are your colleagues ready to pay?
My last FAA licence renewal (I.e. medical) cost me $50....... My last JAA renewal cost me $1500 including paying for proving that I could speak English, my native language.
So maybe it would be easier to create a company called UPS EUROPE, with the TNT crews...... Otherwise bring your credit cards.
mutt
What about taxation? Are USA based crews ready to pay European tax? Are you aware that present expat flight crew have to monitor the number of days they spend in Europe? Are your colleagues ready to pay?
My last FAA licence renewal (I.e. medical) cost me $50....... My last JAA renewal cost me $1500 including paying for proving that I could speak English, my native language.
So maybe it would be easier to create a company called UPS EUROPE, with the TNT crews...... Otherwise bring your credit cards.
mutt
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It does not become fact until it has happened. As of now it may be what you wish or think will happen, nothing more.
As a couple of gentlemen has already mentioned, nobody knows how the two companies will integrate, least of all those at the coalface. EU regulators will also have to approved the deal and may impose conditions or restrictions.
This may also be an opportunity for UPS to challenge the unions.
As a couple of gentlemen has already mentioned, nobody knows how the two companies will integrate, least of all those at the coalface. EU regulators will also have to approved the deal and may impose conditions or restrictions.
This may also be an opportunity for UPS to challenge the unions.
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But where does this end? Can American Airlines take over British Airways and then replace all their planes with N registered aircraft and crews?
Why should UPS get away with it?
Mutt
Why should UPS get away with it?
Mutt
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I doubt UPS will be allowed to operate all EU network on N-reg fleet. They can get away with some routes but surely not all of them. Long existence of Star Air is rather confirming this, let alone smaller feeders.
No doubt TNT value is brand, contracts and network and this has very little to do with TNT Airways as such. At the end of a day TNT Airways is rather small operation. So I see two scenarios based on a fact that 51% should be traceable to EU/EEC individuals: a) UPS will keep TNT Airways (could be rebranded as UPS Europe) through some artificial ownership structure and possibly even grow it at expense of Star Air, although I wouldn't bet this will remain Belgian AOC and LGG base, or b) they will shut TNT Airways and grow Star Air.
There is some value in EU airline apart from intra-EU network and that's a traffic rights to/from Asia and Africa.
No doubt TNT value is brand, contracts and network and this has very little to do with TNT Airways as such. At the end of a day TNT Airways is rather small operation. So I see two scenarios based on a fact that 51% should be traceable to EU/EEC individuals: a) UPS will keep TNT Airways (could be rebranded as UPS Europe) through some artificial ownership structure and possibly even grow it at expense of Star Air, although I wouldn't bet this will remain Belgian AOC and LGG base, or b) they will shut TNT Airways and grow Star Air.
There is some value in EU airline apart from intra-EU network and that's a traffic rights to/from Asia and Africa.
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Europeans,
Wake up,and I am one.The politics are the prob and until it gets sorted we cant complain.Browntailwhale got my back up as much as anybody else and I dont work for TNT,they must be livid.Polar52 said American parties are not to blame and he/she is dead right.
I should be proud but I find myself jealous because of the rules.What rules you may ask,they are the rules that differ between the USA and the European UNION,union my arse.Im sorry folks but been as pissed off and all as I am show me the road to take on this subject with the rules the way they are.
By the way for those Europeans who recken we have protected internal flights,bull,UPS op a 767 VLC-BCN so thank the Spanish Gov for that and FEDEX op a 757 CGN-MUC.Not anti anything,just realism.
Dont really know where to end this except to say its not anti anybody,as a pilot I hope we all keep our jobs.
Wake up,and I am one.The politics are the prob and until it gets sorted we cant complain.Browntailwhale got my back up as much as anybody else and I dont work for TNT,they must be livid.Polar52 said American parties are not to blame and he/she is dead right.
I should be proud but I find myself jealous because of the rules.What rules you may ask,they are the rules that differ between the USA and the European UNION,union my arse.Im sorry folks but been as pissed off and all as I am show me the road to take on this subject with the rules the way they are.
By the way for those Europeans who recken we have protected internal flights,bull,UPS op a 767 VLC-BCN so thank the Spanish Gov for that and FEDEX op a 757 CGN-MUC.Not anti anything,just realism.
Dont really know where to end this except to say its not anti anybody,as a pilot I hope we all keep our jobs.
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What a hot topic, truth is that anyones perception of what should be or what is, is worth less than their 2 cents. The bottom line has an impact on me much less than it does most of you. The fact is, this is happening. The law will dictate how, the preceding result is what you all need to wait for and react to. I guarantee one thing, none of your feelings are worth a damb... YET!
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Not quite right, it is not cabotage
As everyone here knows, the flying rights granted to airlines are agreements made between the governments. There are several levels of flying rights, and UPS is probably operating under fifth freedom rights, allowing us to pick up volume destined for different countries. I am a pilot, not a lawyer, so don't take what I say below as gospel, but I think I'm in the ballpark.
I fly the UPS 767 VLC-BCN-CGN route routinely, and to imply it is cabotage is incorrect. UPS does not have seventh freedom rights to fly cargo/express inside of Spain, but we are merely picking up volume for destinations outside of Spain for distribution at our Cologne hub to points beyond. The loads are usually extremely light into and out of VLC, so we may actually do that short leg from Barcelona only for lower fuel and parking costs; I actually don't know.
Much of our intra-Europe flying is actually a "change of gauge," where our larger MD11 and 744, fly into our Cologne hub from Asia, the Middle East, and North America, gets sorted and delivered to points beyond on our "smaller" 767 aircraft. Then, or course, the reverse occurs feeding European volume to points worldwide. It's an extremely complex system that is augmented by a large and sophisticated ground transportation network (a package will always go by ground if it can make its delivery time/date). There are many city pairs within Europe UPS does not have the right to fly, so we have a ten year contract with Star Air (Maersk Air) to cover that flying. I believe they use 11 B767SF in our Cologne operation. Our two unions and pilot groups have a very good relationship, and the IPA directly supported SAC during their most recent contract negotiations with UPS.
I fly the UPS 767 VLC-BCN-CGN route routinely, and to imply it is cabotage is incorrect. UPS does not have seventh freedom rights to fly cargo/express inside of Spain, but we are merely picking up volume for destinations outside of Spain for distribution at our Cologne hub to points beyond. The loads are usually extremely light into and out of VLC, so we may actually do that short leg from Barcelona only for lower fuel and parking costs; I actually don't know.
Much of our intra-Europe flying is actually a "change of gauge," where our larger MD11 and 744, fly into our Cologne hub from Asia, the Middle East, and North America, gets sorted and delivered to points beyond on our "smaller" 767 aircraft. Then, or course, the reverse occurs feeding European volume to points worldwide. It's an extremely complex system that is augmented by a large and sophisticated ground transportation network (a package will always go by ground if it can make its delivery time/date). There are many city pairs within Europe UPS does not have the right to fly, so we have a ten year contract with Star Air (Maersk Air) to cover that flying. I believe they use 11 B767SF in our Cologne operation. Our two unions and pilot groups have a very good relationship, and the IPA directly supported SAC during their most recent contract negotiations with UPS.
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....and FEDEX op a 757 CGN-MUC.Not anti anything,just realism.....
well, according to my knowledge FedEx is operating this route as ´repositioning´ to fly MUC-TLV, meaning zero payload from CGN to MUC.... But plse enlighten me if they break German rules each single night by taking payload along & I would be happy to bring this issue forward to the appropriate officials
Best Rgds.
well, according to my knowledge FedEx is operating this route as ´repositioning´ to fly MUC-TLV, meaning zero payload from CGN to MUC.... But plse enlighten me if they break German rules each single night by taking payload along & I would be happy to bring this issue forward to the appropriate officials
Best Rgds.
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Like upsfr8captain says. You're not picking up freight from one location in Spain and delivering it to another in the same country. You are merely picking up freight with destinations in other countries. That's how it works. FedEx do exactly the same
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It also seems only pilots are upset about this. What about all the Euro jobs FedEx, UPS etc are creating?? Ramp, sort, maintenance, courier etc etc plus work going out to vendors??
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"It also seems only pilots are upset about this. What about all the Euro jobs FedEx, UPS etc are creating?? Ramp, sort, maintenance, courier etc etc plus work going out to vendors??"
exact, and a jet need his dirty oily aircraft mechs,rampers, etc... ie, and compagnies like ups and fedex pay better wages. so it could be interesting for the not flying people to work for oUPS
exact, and a jet need his dirty oily aircraft mechs,rampers, etc... ie, and compagnies like ups and fedex pay better wages. so it could be interesting for the not flying people to work for oUPS
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Originally Posted by polax52
UPS are not going to do battle with their Pilot Union, that really makes no sense whatsoever.
There is now a situation where two groups of employees both have something to win and something to lose. If one group wins the other loses.
I have little doubt that UPS is looking at that as an opportunity.
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"It also seems only pilots are upset about this. What about all the Euro jobs FedEx, UPS etc are creating?? Ramp, sort, maintenance, courier etc etc plus work going out to vendors??"
exact, and a jet need his dirty oily aircraft mechs,rampers, etc... ie, and compagnies like ups and fedex pay better wages. so it could be interesting for the not flying people to work for oUPS
exact, and a jet need his dirty oily aircraft mechs,rampers, etc... ie, and compagnies like ups and fedex pay better wages. so it could be interesting for the not flying people to work for oUPS
I feel we must give some respect to the pioneers of the modern package delivery airline as UPS, FedEx and DHL (originally a US based co.) deserve.
No there would not be as many globally employed persons that support these airlines if not for them. The capitalistic environment that allowed them the growth rate they had does not exist in the EU, back then or today.
This can be argued to death but fact is, it is well... factual.
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Let's put that "fact" into perspective shall we
Economy of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And that's at the height of the European crisis. All the talk about emerging markets and the euro crisis make people forget that the EU is in fact the largest economy in the world.
The problem is that the EU politicians can never agree on anything apart from setting a new date to talk.
The economy of the European Union generates a GDP of over €12.279033*trillion (US$17.960*trillion in 2011) according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), making it the largest economy in the world.
And that's at the height of the European crisis. All the talk about emerging markets and the euro crisis make people forget that the EU is in fact the largest economy in the world.
The problem is that the EU politicians can never agree on anything apart from setting a new date to talk.
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They (LGG and UPS) are now discussing on the eurocarex project (cargo via high speed train). The whole goal of LGG mgmt is to convince UPS to keep the Liège hub alive and running.
A cargo high speed train could link both airport in 40 minutes.
The high speed tracks are already existing. Thalys connects Liège and Cologne multiple times per day for passengers.
EURO CAREX : Cargo Rail Express
A cargo high speed train could link both airport in 40 minutes.
The high speed tracks are already existing. Thalys connects Liège and Cologne multiple times per day for passengers.
EURO CAREX : Cargo Rail Express
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EU
High Speed train link for cargo ? been talked about for years. More EU - non elected Civil Servants finding ways to spend billions and still take 20 years to get anywhere. I hope they do but it will not happen in my working lifetime. Forgive the pun, EU Techno Civil Servants are on the Gravy Train ! Most of them should get a proper job........they can`t because it does not pay them enough ! Where shall we sit ? Brussels or Strasbourg. It is the only thing these half wits can actually organise .
Rant over.......enjoy your weekend !
Rant over.......enjoy your weekend !
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737Jock
The economy of the European Union generates a GDP of over €12.279033*trillion (US$17.960*trillion in 2011) according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), making it the largest economy in the world.
The EU was at best a concept when the major package delivery airlines saw the opportunity and as they created the business we know today.
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Test run happened 2 days ago. FedEx, UPS, TNT & airport involvement mentioned.
International Railway History Made at St. Pancras as a Cargo Carrying TGV Makes First Visit to the S | Rail.co.uk
also
TGV ?La Poste? visits St Pancras - The Railway Magazine Magazine
Lid
International Railway History Made at St. Pancras as a Cargo Carrying TGV Makes First Visit to the S | Rail.co.uk
also
TGV ?La Poste? visits St Pancras - The Railway Magazine Magazine
Lid
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TNT Airways to be sold to comply with EU regulations but will continue to operate.
UPS Confirms TNT Airways To Be Sold Prior To TNT Express Acquisition | Fox Business
UPS Confirms TNT Airways To Be Sold Prior To TNT Express Acquisition | Fox Business