What's the truth about the MD11?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CT
Age: 54
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Muduckace - you kinda quoted me out of context. As much a I love flying the 11 and am quite loyal to Douglas, I'd prefer after an excessively hard landing to see the gear come through the top of the wing ala BA @ LHR to seeing the gear stay attached but the wing break...
It's rare, and does seem to be the result of incorrect technique, but it's still happened 3x too often.
That said, to "achieve" that result, you REALLY have to slam it on.
So, no, I don't blame the machine. I do suggest that having the gear attach fail before the wing attach would be better! But if you my posts in their entirety, I think you'll find that on balance I'm an MD-11 defender.
It's rare, and does seem to be the result of incorrect technique, but it's still happened 3x too often.
That said, to "achieve" that result, you REALLY have to slam it on.
So, no, I don't blame the machine. I do suggest that having the gear attach fail before the wing attach would be better! But if you my posts in their entirety, I think you'll find that on balance I'm an MD-11 defender.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Buffalo, NU
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have heard from numerous sources that the MD11 is a difficult plane to fly and some have theorised that the relatively high accident rate of the type (8 or 9 write-offs?) may be the result of this. Most of this comes from people who have never flown the type, so I was wondering if any current or former MD11 pilots could share their opinion? Are they totally different to a DC10?
N4790P
From talking to MD11 pilots, the plane also has less rudder authority when compared to other aircraft. My ERJ145, for example, lacks in aileron authority. This means that when landing in high crosswind we actually touchdown with full aileron deflection. Without it, you won’t land. In the MD11, I think this lack of rudder authority has caused issues because, as you know, when you kick the rudder and add a horizontal component of lift, you lose vertical component of lift as the plane only generates so much lift. I think this might play into what causes the plane to land very hard on one side, crushing one main gear and causing a roll over.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sand pit
Age: 54
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew the MD11 for 11 years...it was a tank! Yes the gear came through the wings but normally on the 3rd bounce with over 9g’s, which would probably happen to anything
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew the MD11 for5 years, mostly cargo. Its hand flying qualities left a lot to be desired. After clicking the a/p off there was still a lot of input to the flight controls by the computer system. Landings were fine, but an unstableized approach could cause more problems than in other types.
The systems were the best I have ever flown.
The systems were the best I have ever flown.
I flew the MD11 for 11 years...it was a tank! Yes the gear came through the wings but normally on the 3rd bounce with over 9g’s, which would probably happen to anything
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
It’s very obvious the horizontal stabilizer is significantly
smaller on the MD11 than the DC10
But I don’t see what you’re saying about the vertical
stabilizer as being accurate, there’s no difference in
size between the two variants
Nothing mentioned about what a pig it is to load? Well here goes..
Tail-tipping. Because of the engine at the back, the MD-11 is naturally tail-heavy. In my previous company, the empty CG was at 97.xx and the tail-tip limit was at 100. You had to be real careful when loading and offloading.
Load-planning. When all pallets were loaded up, the CG was way up in front. If you were loading general cargo you could plan your load so that you loaded your heavy stuff on the pallets which went in the aft hold (lower-deck) and rear contour zones (main deck). I did the load-sheet for one flight from Asia to Europe with a stop in SHJ. For the SHJ-Europe leg there it was not possible to add pax (crew family) as the aircraft would've been out of trim. A bit of bitching but in actual fact nothing was wrong!
But if this was a charter with all cargo having the same load density then you may have problems which had to be solved by leaving a few pallet positions empty.
While it is possible for the 747 freighter to tail-tip, the guys at Boeing saw fit to develop a tail-stand. On the MD11 you depended on the loading sequence. Some airlines mandated the use of a weight-cart as a fail-safe.
A loadmaster on an MD11 is constantly going going out on the main-deck loader to look at the nosewheel extension as this is a good gauge of how high the nose is. Oh, and a 6 inch step from the top of the passenger steps to the aircraft entryway can develop into 2 feet.
Anilv
Tail-tipping. Because of the engine at the back, the MD-11 is naturally tail-heavy. In my previous company, the empty CG was at 97.xx and the tail-tip limit was at 100. You had to be real careful when loading and offloading.
Load-planning. When all pallets were loaded up, the CG was way up in front. If you were loading general cargo you could plan your load so that you loaded your heavy stuff on the pallets which went in the aft hold (lower-deck) and rear contour zones (main deck). I did the load-sheet for one flight from Asia to Europe with a stop in SHJ. For the SHJ-Europe leg there it was not possible to add pax (crew family) as the aircraft would've been out of trim. A bit of bitching but in actual fact nothing was wrong!
But if this was a charter with all cargo having the same load density then you may have problems which had to be solved by leaving a few pallet positions empty.
While it is possible for the 747 freighter to tail-tip, the guys at Boeing saw fit to develop a tail-stand. On the MD11 you depended on the loading sequence. Some airlines mandated the use of a weight-cart as a fail-safe.
A loadmaster on an MD11 is constantly going going out on the main-deck loader to look at the nosewheel extension as this is a good gauge of how high the nose is. Oh, and a 6 inch step from the top of the passenger steps to the aircraft entryway can develop into 2 feet.
Anilv
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: EGSS
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew the MD11 for 11 years...it was a tank! Yes the gear came through the wings but normally on the 3rd bounce with over 9g’s, which would probably happen to anything
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
Every crash was very similar in the fact that all started with a bounce, followed by pushing the nose down, unloading the wing and the plane would bounce very hard of nose wheel, followed by a 5g then a 10g touchdown....got ugly very quickly
The vertical stab was 40% smaller than the DC10 and any type of crosswind technique or cross control would often result in high sink rate, coupled with fact that autothrottles would retard at 50 feet, regardless of what speed was, so often needed to add thrust or block the thrust levers from coming back for few seconds
Despite all this , 99% of pilots who flew her still will say it was their favorite airplane
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sporty landings?
As I understand it, the MD11 has a super-critical wing, which reduces drag, but it therefore lands hot. How much faster is the 11's landing speed compared to the DC-10?
