Atlas Polar
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You are correct in that there was merger. Polar crews were merged from their contract and company into a future crew leasing company. In the end they were taken out by their own union and the NMB. In a couple of years IBT will most likely PAY you guys to go back to ALPA as they will be near insolvent due to the endless legal costs trying to settle things and enforce a contract. This is kind of like Obama, Time to show them what you got. As they say Skippers On The Bridge
From the public record, it appears that Polar was purchased by Atlas several years ago. Logic would only follow that based on cost efficiencies that the carriers would be merged. In fact, in the seniority abritration, was not a letter from your ALPA Contract Administrator to your former MEC Chairman Bob Fell produced? Dated in 2001, it memorialized a meeting with management that clearly stated that when merged, the airline would only have 4-5 747-400's and those pilots, numbering about 150, would be the only ones to be part of the merged airline?
Every pilot I've ever known wants to be king. However, it appears from the post and that of other Polar compatriots, it has been determined that regardless the facts, they feel the right to run the company that bought them. Let's all remember that Polar; started by GECAS to fly around old, beat up Classic's, had a deuce of a time finding someone to underwrite the purchase of the very -400's they fly today. Seems to many that they ought to have been grateful someone stepped in to bail them out in the first place. In fact, wasn't one of their maintenance hog Classic's called "Miss Piggy?"
I don't imagine that anyone will allow the use over 1.2 million hard earned dues dollars paid by others like ALPA did to allow them to continue grievances that to date have proven to be pretty weak. While their CBA may allow them to proceed on their own, one could also expect that Mr. Katz, the attorney who has drained the money from the pockets of so many hard working ALPA pilots, will likely now only work for cash upfront. That's assuming ALPA agrees to let him do the work. Those of us who have been down this road know too well how ALPA reminds lawyers that if they work for someone represented elsewhere, the ALPA gravytrain shuts down.
It sure seems that a lot of them are really miserable and don't like working for a company that seems to be doing better than most. I'm betting that there are plenty of out of work pilots who would love a steady paycheck and a future with a union carrier who will only be too happy to step up.
I heard a guy say something the other day about this; at least about the ones of who constantly whine out there. He said it reminded him of a bumper sticker he saw growing up in the Midwest, back when folks were griping about the cost of food. It said:
"To the American consumer: Don't complain with your mouth full."
Sure seems they have a nice paycheck and job security if they want it, but they're too busy whining about what they don't have.
If they'd had been smart, they'd have told their leadership to get a contract before the economy tanked. It's sure seems their leadership is focused on ego and not jobs.
Newsflash: Unless you're the CEO, it ain't your sandbox. If you don't like it, leave. I doubt anyone over there will really care.
From the public record, it appears that Polar was purchased by Atlas several years ago. Logic would only follow that based on cost efficiencies that the carriers would be merged. In fact, in the seniority abritration, was not a letter from your ALPA Contract Administrator to your former MEC Chairman Bob Fell produced? Dated in 2001, it memorialized a meeting with management that clearly stated that when merged, the airline would only have 4-5 747-400's and those pilots, numbering about 150, would be the only ones to be part of the merged airline?
Every pilot I've ever known wants to be king. However, it appears from the post and that of other Polar compatriots, it has been determined that regardless the facts, they feel the right to run the company that bought them. Let's all remember that Polar; started by GECAS to fly around old, beat up Classic's, had a deuce of a time finding someone to underwrite the purchase of the very -400's they fly today. Seems to many that they ought to have been grateful someone stepped in to bail them out in the first place. In fact, wasn't one of their maintenance hog Classic's called "Miss Piggy?"
I don't imagine that anyone will allow the use over 1.2 million hard earned dues dollars paid by others like ALPA did to allow them to continue grievances that to date have proven to be pretty weak. While their CBA may allow them to proceed on their own, one could also expect that Mr. Katz, the attorney who has drained the money from the pockets of so many hard working ALPA pilots, will likely now only work for cash upfront. That's assuming ALPA agrees to let him do the work. Those of us who have been down this road know too well how ALPA reminds lawyers that if they work for someone represented elsewhere, the ALPA gravytrain shuts down.
It sure seems that a lot of them are really miserable and don't like working for a company that seems to be doing better than most. I'm betting that there are plenty of out of work pilots who would love a steady paycheck and a future with a union carrier who will only be too happy to step up.
I heard a guy say something the other day about this; at least about the ones of who constantly whine out there. He said it reminded him of a bumper sticker he saw growing up in the Midwest, back when folks were griping about the cost of food. It said:
"To the American consumer: Don't complain with your mouth full."
Sure seems they have a nice paycheck and job security if they want it, but they're too busy whining about what they don't have.
If they'd had been smart, they'd have told their leadership to get a contract before the economy tanked. It's sure seems their leadership is focused on ego and not jobs.Newsflash: Unless you're the CEO, it ain't your sandbox. If you don't like it, leave. I doubt anyone over there will really care.
Last edited by IslamoradaFlyer; 21st Dec 2008 at 00:22.
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I noted ALPA pulled the plug prematurely for their members services. The official day was Monday and they yanked access right after the count on the 19th three days early instead. Too bad their past support was not as quick as their pulling the plug was. Make sure you guys get your prorate to the 19th on those services.
Noted atlasforteamsters.com has contact numbers, emergency, and emails to Local 1224 posted on the site yesterday for the guys now.
Noted atlasforteamsters.com has contact numbers, emergency, and emails to Local 1224 posted on the site yesterday for the guys now.
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ALPA had a handy "crewroom" website that was also abruptly yanked. It was very useful for keeping each other informed over odds and ends (lost and found on acft, best breakfast , ect) - Will the IBT offer a similar feature?
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I learned today from an Atlas disptacher that they are parking 5 classics tomorrow. Let's see how IBT supports the furloughees that are sure to follow.
Last edited by layinlow; 22nd Dec 2008 at 19:33. Reason: change of wording
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I learned today from an Atlas disptacher that they are parking 5 classics tomorrow. Let's see how IBT supports the furloughees that are sure to follow.
Top Dog
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Parking...
Over the next days following will happen
506: ROW as of the 26th
512: ROW as of the 25th
522: MHR 23rd-28th but basically available
523: HHN 23rd-30th """"
526: BRU 23rd-30th """"
528: ROW as of the 30th
809: ROW as of Jan 2nd (though since only NCD classic, that can change)
I see in general (non-tail specific) 4 classics parked in Jan. Things change though.
Over the next days following will happen
506: ROW as of the 26th
512: ROW as of the 25th
522: MHR 23rd-28th but basically available
523: HHN 23rd-30th """"
526: BRU 23rd-30th """"
528: ROW as of the 30th
809: ROW as of Jan 2nd (though since only NCD classic, that can change)
I see in general (non-tail specific) 4 classics parked in Jan. Things change though.
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Originally Posted by L-38
ALPA had a handy "crewroom" website that was also abruptly yanked. It was very useful for keeping each other informed over odds and ends (lost and found on acft, best breakfast , ect) - Will the IBT offer a similar feature?
I imagine one will be made available at the IBT site. Was told if they did it at the current atlasforteamsters site (temporary site for the decertification) that they would have to start over again when it moved to the IBT site causing frustration for the guys having to be issued ID's and passwords a couple of times.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 23rd Dec 2008 at 03:18.
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layinlow
"I learned today from an Atlas disptacher that they are parking 5 classics tomorrow. Let's see how IBT supports the furloughees that are sure to follow."
******************
Anything would be better than what ALPA National did last time, which was nothing. Their MEC went in and got them things from what I understand in terms of pay and I believe they got thier profit sharing which they normally would not have gotten.
Guess that's what happens when you try to work with management to protect your crewmembers.
Instead of your MEC Chairman and his hot tempered Negotiating Chairman sidekick constantly shoving a stick in their eye and calling them names.
"I learned today from an Atlas disptacher that they are parking 5 classics tomorrow. Let's see how IBT supports the furloughees that are sure to follow."
******************
Anything would be better than what ALPA National did last time, which was nothing. Their MEC went in and got them things from what I understand in terms of pay and I believe they got thier profit sharing which they normally would not have gotten.
Guess that's what happens when you try to work with management to protect your crewmembers.
Instead of your MEC Chairman and his hot tempered Negotiating Chairman sidekick constantly shoving a stick in their eye and calling them names.
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Insurance
They just posted some new stuff welcoming you to council 1224 and some links to start your insurance transfer over on http://atlasforteamsters.com under the new tab "Welcome to 1224" and insurance links.
You guys ignoring the site might want to sign up for the mass emailings to stay informed during this period. Pass it on to your coworkers. They have a link for the email list sign up on the left column.
You guys ignoring the site might want to sign up for the mass emailings to stay informed during this period. Pass it on to your coworkers. They have a link for the email list sign up on the left column.
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Originally Posted by Islamoradaflyer
Instead of your MEC Chairman and his hot tempered Negotiating Chairman sidekick constantly shoving a stick in their eye and calling them names.
In a Democracy, the people get the Government they deserve
To be effective, a government, be it a national government or the administrative body of a union, needs the hands on participation of its members. Any deficiencies or failures of ALPA, IBT or any other union are a direct reflection upon the members of these unions, not their elected representatives.
Another Tocqueville quote:
"The health of a democratic society may be measured by the quality of functions performed by private citizens”
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I don't think I'd open that can of worms. In the last eight years, more Constitutional rights have been trampled under the guise of Presidential Directives than at any time in our history. If one disgareed, they were labelled as "unpatriotic" or "supporting terrorism." Remember too, this is the guy who wanted to ban strikes in the airline industry.
A lot of tripe is being laid at the feet of, and really wild accusations are being made about an administration that is not even yet in office, and all purported to be "gospel."
Such accusations and rumor mongering are the delight of those who survive by spreading hate. Hermann Goerring said it best in a speech written for him by the propaganda master, Josef Goebbels:
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -- Hermann Goering
Works for governments. Works for others as well.
The Founding Fathers were considered flaming liberals because they dared to stand up to the King. Thomas Paine was loathed for his provocative writing in "Common Sense." Today, the ACLU is willing to take on cases from even those who are going against the grain of society, if the case is one that protects the tenets of the Constitution. It's not a matter of whether you like the issue personally or not, it's a matter of defending the Constitution. Careful reading of the works of the Founding Fathers indicates that were they alive today, they would have led the charge against the raping of the Constitution in the past eight years.
Fly the flag upside down?
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summertime soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
No thanks. I'll bank on the words above, written by Thomas Paine.
Now can we get back to talking airline stuff??
A lot of tripe is being laid at the feet of, and really wild accusations are being made about an administration that is not even yet in office, and all purported to be "gospel."
Such accusations and rumor mongering are the delight of those who survive by spreading hate. Hermann Goerring said it best in a speech written for him by the propaganda master, Josef Goebbels:
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -- Hermann Goering
Works for governments. Works for others as well.
The Founding Fathers were considered flaming liberals because they dared to stand up to the King. Thomas Paine was loathed for his provocative writing in "Common Sense." Today, the ACLU is willing to take on cases from even those who are going against the grain of society, if the case is one that protects the tenets of the Constitution. It's not a matter of whether you like the issue personally or not, it's a matter of defending the Constitution. Careful reading of the works of the Founding Fathers indicates that were they alive today, they would have led the charge against the raping of the Constitution in the past eight years.
Fly the flag upside down?
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summertime soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
No thanks. I'll bank on the words above, written by Thomas Paine.
Now can we get back to talking airline stuff??
Last edited by IslamoradaFlyer; 31st Dec 2008 at 12:23.
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back to aviation stuff
Airlines "shrinking by all measures": IATATue Dec 30 11:57:17 UTC 2008
By Robert Evans
GENEVA (Reuters) - International airlines saw a huge 13.5 percent fall in cargo traffic in November and a drop of 4.6 percent in passengers as business shrank across the industry, the carriers' grouping IATA said on Tuesday.
The figures, reflecting what IATA has dubbed a "chronic crisis" with revenues tumbling and hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk, marked the sharpest declines since the months after the September 2001 attacks in the United States.
"The 13.5 percent drop in international cargo is shocking," said Giovanni Bisignani, Director General of the body, the International Air Transport Association which represents airlines operating 93 percent of cross-border flights.
"As air cargo handles 35 percent of the value of goods traded internationally, it clearly shows the rapid fall in global trade and the broadening impact of the economic slowdown," he declared.
"The industry is now shrinking by all measures."
Although airlines had cut flight numbers by 1 pct in November in anticipation of falling demand, the actual drop in passengers had left planes operating with nearly 27 pct of seats empty against only 24 pct in November 2007.
"We can expect deep losses in the fourth quarter," said Bisignani, who earlier this month forecast that total balance sheet deficits in 2008 of its some 230 members across the globe would reach $5 billion by the end of the year.
The November figures, issued from IATA's Geneva headquarters, showed airlines in the Asia-Pacific area -- which accounts for nearly 45 pct of global air freight -- seeing the largest regional cargo traffic drop, a whopping 16.9 pct.
Asia-Pacific, which includes the previously rapidly expanding China market, saw a decline of 9.7 pct in passenger numbers, also more than any other of the six world regions that IATA reports on separately.
Carriers in North America -- which includes the United States, Canada and Mexico -- saw a decline of 14.4 pct in cargo a 4.8 pct in passengers, the last, IATA said, reflecting the near-collapse of the investment banking sector.
Europe recorded an 11 pct slump in cargo and 3.4 pct in passengers as the major markets for its airlines -- intra-continental, the North Atlantic and Asia -- all sunk deeper into economic woes.
At the start of December, IATA forecast that industry losses in 2009 were likely to total some $2.5 billion, despite a boost from falling oil prices after the hike in the middle of 2008 which had hit carriers hard.
Commenting on the Tuesday figures, Bisignani did not suggest any revision of that prediction.
But he said the overall economic gloom reflected by the November statistics would carry over into the coming year. "The industry is back in intensive care. Improved efficiency everywhere will he the theme for 2009," he declared.
(Editing by Hans Peters)
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Times are tough all around.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot Over Manning Road Map
FCIF 08-0744 (Admin)
December 31, 2008
By now, most of you are aware that the Company is taking significant action on a broad basis in response to the deteriorating economic conditions we face. In this environment it is critical that we find the most efficient means of servicing our customers. Doing so entails an analysis of our route structure, fleet requirements and staffing assumptions. The purpose of this communication is to advise you where I believe we are right now, and where I think we are headed.
We are in a significantly overmanned state that cannot be sustained any longer. Although we have worked very hard to find and justify additional flying in order to offset our over-manned situation, it is now clear that those efforts will be overshadowed by macro-economic conditions. Airline Scheduling has dramatically reduced the flight schedule to more correctly match the airplane capacity with market demand. This reduction in flying contributes additional surplus pilots to our already excess flight crewmember staffing and will more than offset any additional flying we may be able to generate. To be a little more specific, the following is a list of factors that are required and/or contribute to this situation:
Reduced flight hours associated with route reductions and consolidation
Early retirement of DC10 aircraft.
Parking of A310 aircraft due to excess fleet capacity
Replacement of B727 aircraft with B757
Slower introduction of 777 airplanes into the system, 4 to 5 per year through 2012
Age 60 retirement change (Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act)
With these business realities in view, earlier today, we advised ALPA of our intention to reduce the Minimum Bid Period Guarantee to the minimums set forth in Section 4.A.2.b. of the contract (48 CH in a four week bid period and 60 CH in a five week bid period). This is effective beginning with the February, 2009 bid period. In February, we expect average BLG's to be well above those minimums. Conditions are very fluid and we will be constantly reevaluating the situation. As we have consistently done in the past, we will mitigate crew position staffing concerns to the extent practicable with BLG management. Contract provisions described in Section 25.D. continue to apply to line construction and we will make every effort to balance line values where possible.
An excess posting on most aircraft types is targeted for the February/March 2009 timeframe due to the factors mentioned above and especially the large number of aircraft scheduled for storage. This will create further downward pressure on junior pilots in crew positions where the over-manning situation is most acute.
Section 23, Furlough, remains a possibility depending upon the severity of the continued economic downturn. Current projections indicate that revenue operations require fewer than 4,000 active pilots for the next several years. Considering the slowing rate of attrition, this condition translates to surplus pilots even with reduced BLG's (the surplus is over 700 if one assumes historically normal BLG's). Retirement forecasts indicate no more than 35 to 50 pilots per year will retire for the next three years. After 2012, retirement rates are expected to return to rates of 150 to 200 per year through 2017, as were anticipated prior to the regulated age change.
The economic crisis will have a long lasting impact on FedEx - an impact that will be felt years after the economy rebounds. This is particularly true at FedEx Express because we offer the premium priced services in the FedEx portfolio. Customers who have switched to lower priced services are not likely to switch back even in better times. Also, many customers are downsizing in ways that will reduce the number of packages they ship with us well into the future. In fact, some of our current customers may no longer be in business by the time the economy rebounds. These realities dictate that FedEx take measures to permanently balance our cost with expected volume and revenue levels for the extended future.
No-one likes to be the bearer of bad tidings. I feel strongly, however, that I owe it to you to be candid about the challenges our management team sees ahead of us. These changes and realignments are not easy for anyone concerned, however, the need to make adjustments, carefully realigning schedules and aircraft lift to load requirements to contain costs and manage the airline realistically, is paramount. By implementing these measures, we aim to secure the future of our operation and our collective futures. Regardless of your status and position on the seniority list, it is imperative that we all stay focused and continue to operate safely and reliably despite all of the external pressures we are facing.
Thank you for your time, dedication and continued professionalism,
Captain Paul E. Cassel
Vice President, Flight Operations
FedEx Express
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot Over Manning Road Map
FCIF 08-0744 (Admin)
December 31, 2008
By now, most of you are aware that the Company is taking significant action on a broad basis in response to the deteriorating economic conditions we face. In this environment it is critical that we find the most efficient means of servicing our customers. Doing so entails an analysis of our route structure, fleet requirements and staffing assumptions. The purpose of this communication is to advise you where I believe we are right now, and where I think we are headed.
We are in a significantly overmanned state that cannot be sustained any longer. Although we have worked very hard to find and justify additional flying in order to offset our over-manned situation, it is now clear that those efforts will be overshadowed by macro-economic conditions. Airline Scheduling has dramatically reduced the flight schedule to more correctly match the airplane capacity with market demand. This reduction in flying contributes additional surplus pilots to our already excess flight crewmember staffing and will more than offset any additional flying we may be able to generate. To be a little more specific, the following is a list of factors that are required and/or contribute to this situation:
Reduced flight hours associated with route reductions and consolidation
Early retirement of DC10 aircraft.
Parking of A310 aircraft due to excess fleet capacity
Replacement of B727 aircraft with B757
Slower introduction of 777 airplanes into the system, 4 to 5 per year through 2012
Age 60 retirement change (Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act)
With these business realities in view, earlier today, we advised ALPA of our intention to reduce the Minimum Bid Period Guarantee to the minimums set forth in Section 4.A.2.b. of the contract (48 CH in a four week bid period and 60 CH in a five week bid period). This is effective beginning with the February, 2009 bid period. In February, we expect average BLG's to be well above those minimums. Conditions are very fluid and we will be constantly reevaluating the situation. As we have consistently done in the past, we will mitigate crew position staffing concerns to the extent practicable with BLG management. Contract provisions described in Section 25.D. continue to apply to line construction and we will make every effort to balance line values where possible.
An excess posting on most aircraft types is targeted for the February/March 2009 timeframe due to the factors mentioned above and especially the large number of aircraft scheduled for storage. This will create further downward pressure on junior pilots in crew positions where the over-manning situation is most acute.
Section 23, Furlough, remains a possibility depending upon the severity of the continued economic downturn. Current projections indicate that revenue operations require fewer than 4,000 active pilots for the next several years. Considering the slowing rate of attrition, this condition translates to surplus pilots even with reduced BLG's (the surplus is over 700 if one assumes historically normal BLG's). Retirement forecasts indicate no more than 35 to 50 pilots per year will retire for the next three years. After 2012, retirement rates are expected to return to rates of 150 to 200 per year through 2017, as were anticipated prior to the regulated age change.
The economic crisis will have a long lasting impact on FedEx - an impact that will be felt years after the economy rebounds. This is particularly true at FedEx Express because we offer the premium priced services in the FedEx portfolio. Customers who have switched to lower priced services are not likely to switch back even in better times. Also, many customers are downsizing in ways that will reduce the number of packages they ship with us well into the future. In fact, some of our current customers may no longer be in business by the time the economy rebounds. These realities dictate that FedEx take measures to permanently balance our cost with expected volume and revenue levels for the extended future.
No-one likes to be the bearer of bad tidings. I feel strongly, however, that I owe it to you to be candid about the challenges our management team sees ahead of us. These changes and realignments are not easy for anyone concerned, however, the need to make adjustments, carefully realigning schedules and aircraft lift to load requirements to contain costs and manage the airline realistically, is paramount. By implementing these measures, we aim to secure the future of our operation and our collective futures. Regardless of your status and position on the seniority list, it is imperative that we all stay focused and continue to operate safely and reliably despite all of the external pressures we are facing.
Thank you for your time, dedication and continued professionalism,
Captain Paul E. Cassel
Vice President, Flight Operations
FedEx Express
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A lot of that will be going around to everyone with the overall global situation.
Really going to be tough to negotiate a contract in this environment when it could have been done a few years back in the good times.
Really going to be tough to negotiate a contract in this environment when it could have been done a few years back in the good times.
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"A lot of that will be going around to everyone with the overall global situation. . . . . to negotiate a contract in this environment when it could have been done a few years back in the good times"
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How NOT to move forward...
Although Nitty does have a point, this kind of talk does nobody any good. Lost opportunities and what could have been are history. We have to move forward now. Keep up please, it's not them or us anymore. Dwelling in the past is not going to bring our COMBINED pilot group any closer together. Time to change the tune here.
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I agree.
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be the case as the struggle continues fourth. Discontent is a repetitive theme in one camp no matter the proposed resolutions among newly joined brothers.
Transition is never easy, but some need to realize they are not living in the past and we combined are moving forward to hopefully more fruitful horizons. It requires a two sided give an take union to union remembering that the majority voted in one direction. Thinking otherwise just breeds further discord.
It only continues to cut our own throats collectively on a couple of levels if continued.
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be the case as the struggle continues fourth. Discontent is a repetitive theme in one camp no matter the proposed resolutions among newly joined brothers.
Transition is never easy, but some need to realize they are not living in the past and we combined are moving forward to hopefully more fruitful horizons. It requires a two sided give an take union to union remembering that the majority voted in one direction. Thinking otherwise just breeds further discord.
It only continues to cut our own throats collectively on a couple of levels if continued.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 3rd Jan 2009 at 20:38.