Air Contractors Atr
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: N864 southbound
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Nightcall
Thanks for your reply, I hear that ACL have changed their tune and are now only taking on low hour SOs, this is a bitter blow for me as a 3000hr + ATR SFO, the roster alone is the most important thing for me as It would allow me an occasional life at home again which, to me is priceless.
this is an extremely worrying trend that has spread almost industry wide. the implications are massive and terrible for many of us.
I will keep trying to join ACL but don't have much hope if they just take low-hours.
this is an extremely worrying trend that has spread almost industry wide. the implications are massive and terrible for many of us.
I will keep trying to join ACL but don't have much hope if they just take low-hours.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: uk
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Prob40
If it is a home life you are looking for forget ACL at the moment, as most of the guys and girls are working MDP. Three weeks away each and every month and travel to your base at own cost ( base could be anywhere in Europe). However the salary is good, as is ops dept and the engineers on the ramp. Night call is correct though most crew looking to jump at earliest opportunity as T&Cs are being squeezed.
If it is a home life you are looking for forget ACL at the moment, as most of the guys and girls are working MDP. Three weeks away each and every month and travel to your base at own cost ( base could be anywhere in Europe). However the salary is good, as is ops dept and the engineers on the ramp. Night call is correct though most crew looking to jump at earliest opportunity as T&Cs are being squeezed.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europe
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420 HB is right, we are working flat out, some guys 4weeks in a row. The management say we are not short of crew but op's say we are short of numbers. If more than 2 pilots in a week go sick then they have to call someone who is on a week off or on leave to cover...it's getting worse.
We will never get back to where we were but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off. The paying Irish tax situation for European based crew is another bone of contention too...
This all started when our main customer put the squeeze on its feeder airlines of which we are the biggest in Europe.
We will never get back to where we were but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off. The paying Irish tax situation for European based crew is another bone of contention too...
This all started when our main customer put the squeeze on its feeder airlines of which we are the biggest in Europe.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Hardcase / 420 HB
Thanks for your posts!
My current Airline is the same in that crew numbers are chronic, no pay increases, degraded T&Cs (not by much because we don't have any!)
But the thing is we have a lower starting point and the crappiest roster outside of India! if you get a free week every month or two your doing better than me!
and don't get me started on pay or my ATPCS will kick in. Even so I'd work for less just to get the roster.
My current Airline is the same in that crew numbers are chronic, no pay increases, degraded T&Cs (not by much because we don't have any!)
But the thing is we have a lower starting point and the crappiest roster outside of India! if you get a free week every month or two your doing better than me!
and don't get me started on pay or my ATPCS will kick in. Even so I'd work for less just to get the roster.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Prob40,
Truly sorry for you m8.
The main reason for the low houred intake is for ACL to be able to put them on the new "training" payscale. The lesser hours they have, the longer they'll stay on that training scale. This means extra savings for the company. In that pattern, ACL even found it worth it to partly fund one newbie's type rating.
Your 3000 hrs are your weakness at this moment in time.
420,
"salary is good" ????
Try a "normally" taxed FO salary. At best I'd say average.
"T&C are being squeezed".
That's more accurate. Yet, they keep on reminding us about reliability goals. Agreed this is about serving common interests. But then they should stop playing the "overcrewed" broken disc while everyone knows it's a lie and sees it as an insult to our intelligence. They tend to forget the degree of good will involved in these goals achievement. Maybe should we try and play by the rules for the sake of giving them a wake up call. Winter's coming ...
Hardcase,
"but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off"
I'd suggest you wake up ... productivity improvement is their driving factor. Nothing balances it apart from their own assessment of what they can or cannot force feed us with. The only [kind of] force we [as crews] can rely on is the employment market supply and demand unless a proper and recognized pilots association is put together within the company. Can't see that happening.
But fairly enough, it's their company, they set the rules. Can't stand the heat ?....
Sad to say but they're merely another reflection of the state of the industry.
Truly sorry for you m8.
The main reason for the low houred intake is for ACL to be able to put them on the new "training" payscale. The lesser hours they have, the longer they'll stay on that training scale. This means extra savings for the company. In that pattern, ACL even found it worth it to partly fund one newbie's type rating.
Your 3000 hrs are your weakness at this moment in time.
420,
"salary is good" ????
Try a "normally" taxed FO salary. At best I'd say average.
"T&C are being squeezed".
That's more accurate. Yet, they keep on reminding us about reliability goals. Agreed this is about serving common interests. But then they should stop playing the "overcrewed" broken disc while everyone knows it's a lie and sees it as an insult to our intelligence. They tend to forget the degree of good will involved in these goals achievement. Maybe should we try and play by the rules for the sake of giving them a wake up call. Winter's coming ...
Hardcase,
"but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off"
I'd suggest you wake up ... productivity improvement is their driving factor. Nothing balances it apart from their own assessment of what they can or cannot force feed us with. The only [kind of] force we [as crews] can rely on is the employment market supply and demand unless a proper and recognized pilots association is put together within the company. Can't see that happening.
But fairly enough, it's their company, they set the rules. Can't stand the heat ?....
Sad to say but they're merely another reflection of the state of the industry.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Ok, firstly your first statement is incorrect, the reason we hired low hours pilots is due to the fact they didn't have a notice period to give as they had to start the following week after the decision had been made to hire FO's. And secondly how dare you tell me to wake up when I spent 7-8 years trying keep our t&c's intact. Judging by your username I guess you are one of those who moans and shouts in the crew room except when management turn up...
we are all on the same side and don't you forget it!
we are all on the same side and don't you forget it!
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Hardcase,
"and don't you forget it!"
SIR! NO SIR !!!
I WON'T FORGET IT ...
All right all right Hardcase. Chill out m8
We're deffo on the same side here.
Maybe a smilie would have helped showing the "tongue in cheek" nature of my "wake up" suggestion. My mistake. Nothing should be taken too personally here really. I note that you did not object on the main purpose of my comment though... productivity etc...
You certainly noticed this is an anonymous forum. Then how on earth do you expect people to know that you're the hero who spent 7-8 years fighting for our T&C's ?... please...
Or is this about trying to guess who's who or who did what or about judging comments on the base of usernames ? Wouldn't that be somewhat childish ? Surely you know better.
Anyway, my apologies for the offence. It was deffo not intended.
However, while I stand corrected on the "OFFICIAL" reasons behind the low timers recruitment thing, only time will tell whether my take on the matter is wrong or right me thinks. I am hearing that should that young lad fresh out of school comply with ACL standards easily enough, the company is considering using his type of profile as a main hiring source. Bear in mind that the new "training" payscale is meant to be used. If you insist not to see a pattern developing here, then lets just agree to disagree. No big deal. I'm still on your side. I promise. I just have a different view on this one. I'm sure you won't mind.
SIR! NO SIR !!!
I WON'T FORGET IT ...
All right all right Hardcase. Chill out m8
We're deffo on the same side here.
Maybe a smilie would have helped showing the "tongue in cheek" nature of my "wake up" suggestion. My mistake. Nothing should be taken too personally here really. I note that you did not object on the main purpose of my comment though... productivity etc...
You certainly noticed this is an anonymous forum. Then how on earth do you expect people to know that you're the hero who spent 7-8 years fighting for our T&C's ?... please...
Or is this about trying to guess who's who or who did what or about judging comments on the base of usernames ? Wouldn't that be somewhat childish ? Surely you know better.
Anyway, my apologies for the offence. It was deffo not intended.
However, while I stand corrected on the "OFFICIAL" reasons behind the low timers recruitment thing, only time will tell whether my take on the matter is wrong or right me thinks. I am hearing that should that young lad fresh out of school comply with ACL standards easily enough, the company is considering using his type of profile as a main hiring source. Bear in mind that the new "training" payscale is meant to be used. If you insist not to see a pattern developing here, then lets just agree to disagree. No big deal. I'm still on your side. I promise. I just have a different view on this one. I'm sure you won't mind.
