5 tonnes , 500 metres , 5000 ft on a budget ?

[aseanaero]

The mission : deliver 20 tonnes per day in 5 tonne payloads into a 500 metre level runway at an elevation of 5,000 ft , 45 mins from the sea level base airfield

The aircraft would be landing fully loaded and coming out empty or with a partial load no greater than 1 or 2 tonnes

Aircraft budget : $1 to $1.5 million

Candidates that spring to mind : DHC-4 Carribou , DHC-5D Buffalo , AN-72

The Carribou is out as it burns avgas which is difficult to get and expensive at this location ($4 to $6 per litre ! )

Buffalo ? probably out of this budget range , maybe lucky if an ex-military one can be found cheap

AN-72 , maybe some certification issues with the local aviation authority

Is this mission impossible or is there a budget STOL transport I haven't thought about ?

[toolowtoofast]

keep the AN registered in a friendly country with like-licensed pilots?

shorts 330/360? (not sure of $$ value there though)

[aseanaero]

"keep the AN registered in a friendly country with like-licensed pilots?"

That's a possibility

"shorts 330/360? (not sure of $$ value there though) "

It won't carry a 5 tonne payload and probably wont get off a short runway at that altitude even if empty

[toolowtoofast]

i don't know anything about the shorts, but i thought you said you were carrying loads into the short/high strip, and light out?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Sheds only take 3.5 tonnes and will struggle with 500m at that altitude.

[aseanaero]

Correct , it wont be lifting heavy loads out (I reworded my previous response now to make it more clear)

I think the Shorts will only carry 2.5 to 3.5 tonnes and the company who will be paying the bills wants the ability to bring in 5 tonnes in 1 aircraft

Also their budget won't run to heavy lift helis , so thats out

[dusk2dawn]

http://www.penturbo.com/ (but go find some more pennies)

[Nearly There]

The HS748 will carry the weight and good short field performance, not sure on the figures for that altitude tho. But could probably find out tomorrow for you if its an option?

[aseanaero]

Thanks NT

I hadn't considered a HS-748 and there's a few around here in Indo though none are flying but there's one here that just had a major overhaul and has sat for 18mths after the owner went out of business

There is also a bunch of them for sale out of the UK

Ramp aircraft would be better but beggers can't be choosers and the HS has a reasonable sized cargo door

Would it be able to get into a 500m strip loaded and get out lightly loaded at that altitude ? Interesting

[Nearly There]

Will see if I can find out some perf figures for you, it might be worth asking on the Emerald thread, plenty of years experience and knowledge with 748s there!! and no doubt the UK aircraft for sale have come from that source..

[TWOTBAGS]

Andover is another possibility, and with a really helpful loading door but I am skeptical that the 748/Andover will cope with high temps and altitude even with 500mts

Most obvious aircraft that will do the job hands down to me is Dash7, no probs in, no probs out, 45 min each way with reserves will give you easily 5T. Hardest part will be finding one with the big front door.

Dash7 if you had my money.

Or thinking laterally how about a Mi-26 once a day?, 20T possible from S/L. No strip limits even at these altitude.

[aseanaero]

Mi-26 ... thanks for the suggestion , will look into it

I haven't seen the strip and I asked whether its economic to lengthen it , another few hundred metres makes a huge difference on what can get in

Been laying in bed sleepless (got up to have some sleeping medicine ... a beer) thinking of weird ideas like drogue parachutes deployed on touchdown out the back of the aircraft ramp

[mrgoaround]

CV580?

What about the Convair CV580? Think that one can do it (especially with the allisons)

[CargoOne]

AN72s are not operating to/from 500m rwy, even you discount elevation & temperature...

[aseanaero]

Try the numbers for an AN-72 landing with a 5 tonne payload taking off almost empty (not with a 10 tonne payload)

[CargoOne]

aseanaero

I know one AN72 operator first hand and I've seen AN72 Aircraft Flight Manual some time ago. 500m is nonsence, doesn't matter what payload. Even the performance calculation charts are not extending to 500m in the manual, and not even 800m. I hope you are not mixing take-off/landing roll distance with required runway lenght?

[aseanaero]

Hi Cargo-one

I've been digging around on the internet today and you are correct , I was waiting to get flamed on this

I was told by a AN-72 seller in Russia a few days ago that an AN-72 would do it but I hadn't seen any perf charts yet

... all in all its a tough ask , difficult mission on a limited budget

There are some military Buffalos laying around here but the acquisition process is long and complicated however it may be the only way to get this job done with low initial capital cost

[CargoOne]

If you ask me there are 2 ways how to make this project safely:
1. Use of heavy helicopter.
2. Extend the runway at least twice or more, this will make it suitable for AN32 and some other aircraft.

Neither of them are cheap. But flying 4-6-8 times a day to 500m at 5000ft at the edge of any aircraft performance means that it is no longer a question IF accident will happen. It is a question WHEN. And I bet it will happen pretty soon. Try to count crashed freighters around Jayapura and Wamena, which are far less demanding than your place.

[forget]

There are some military Buffalos laying around here

Here = Indonesia. Therefore; $$$$$$ + Big Brown Envelope = Job done.

[Old Fella]

5000 kgs / 5000' AMSL

I think your question just about comes up with one answer only, "Mission Impossible". Must assume you are talking about lifting 5000 Kg at a time into a 500 metre dirt airstrip at 5000' AMSL. Give the almost constant high temperatures in the area you allude to you are going to have a very high Density Altitude. Flew many times into PNG airfields at 5000' AMSL and higher in C130's. It can get exciting, even with 4000' of crushed coral runway at those sort of field elevations. BTW, a Caribou has a useful payload of around 4000 kgs and would be one of the few types I would even give a second glance.

Give the dream to someone else and enjoy less stressful living.