The big merged L1011 thread
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Unfortunately, SkyGate (now known as Sky Pearl) is in a pickle, due in large part to the CEO's inability to come to (what many would call) reasonable terms, with some entities.
Therefore, their aircraft (except possibly one) might remain idle for quite some time.
Therefore, their aircraft (except possibly one) might remain idle for quite some time.
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Skygate
Thanks for the heads up on Skygate. I received a quote from Skygate for Hajj flying based on 2 x L1011`s being made available. I had asked them if they are still under Kyrgyzstan / EX reg but no answer yet ? Do please tell me more before the ensuing faux pas.
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I had asked them if they are still under Kyrgyzstan / EX reg but no answer yet ? Do please tell me more before the ensuing faux pas.
Look to the head shed for the answers...provided there are any forthcoming.
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Passing through AMM I saw the AT aircraft on th ramp.
I dont think that that is the low rent area
The White L1011 next to the Rich is the Globe Jet -500 ex Air Transat
Talking Globe Jet does anyone know if they started the Polish operation ??
The Skygate -250 is still sporting the Ex but who nows what it really is
Yes the 2 hangers ( including the NEW
one) looked pretty full.
There you go David
I dont think that that is the low rent area
The White L1011 next to the Rich is the Globe Jet -500 ex Air Transat
Talking Globe Jet does anyone know if they started the Polish operation ??
The Skygate -250 is still sporting the Ex but who nows what it really is
Yes the 2 hangers ( including the NEW
one) looked pretty full.There you go David
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I can't claim any knowledge of the subject, but follow this thread with great interest.
2B2S: The post you deleted could be important to folks here. PM/email me if you want guidance.
2B2S: The post you deleted could be important to folks here. PM/email me if you want guidance.
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Word is out, crews have been screwed for salary, more to come soon.
The folks in charge are rather well known and the TriStar world is quite a small one indeed.
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N194AT Mughrabi!
I believe "Earl" was one of the crew! Hopefully he got some payment!
The owner of the aircraft is "MUH" (m.mughrabi)
This isn't the first time this guy has pulled this!
He made one post to which I sent below message then he disappeared!
Hi Muh (m.mughrabi)
Aren't you the new operator of the L1011 just ferried?
Didn't you used to fly with Star Air?
The owner of the aircraft is "MUH" (m.mughrabi)
This isn't the first time this guy has pulled this!
He made one post to which I sent below message then he disappeared!
Hi Muh (m.mughrabi)
Aren't you the new operator of the L1011 just ferried?
Didn't you used to fly with Star Air?
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Mughrabi
2Bad2Sad; Sorry to hear about you guys' bad experiences with the cheating Munsen
I was one of those 747 crewmembers mentioned that were stiffed 2 years ago but it was for a different company called Orange Air Services. They had bought an old PIA 7472 under Mughrabis direction, effectively, "sold as seen" by PIA (I did see the bill of sale in the end after much sifting through paperwork) and were hoping to operate the hajj with it. An aggreement had been made on the remuneration that had exactly the same trap sprung in the end as with you. It was clearly 100USD per day per diem for every day away from our own homes and not from Amman as was later claimed. This was clarified by all. We were driven about from one place to another with some time spent in Tel Aviv with the real boss of Orange Air, an Israeli. The airline was set up as Jordanian based rather than Israeli (for the amusing obvious hajj reasons) with a seirra leonne registration. The boss was in fact honest but had found himself compromised by Mughrabi. He had trusted Mughrabi to deal with sourcing an aircraft for his contracts and to worry about the maintenance, airworthyness and staff hiring etc. Mughrabi had promised him all sorts of wonders with this queen of the sky, an old 7472(I seem to remember 1974) which was out of date on a number of AD's etc. Before my time it had been sent to Ryiad for a C service I believe but returned having only been painted!!! This was before my time and is only what we found out by digging. What we do know for 100% is that it had not had the work done on the AD's (engine mounting bolts among them) and also that it had serious corrosion in the wings and around the bulk hold as marked out in red all over the upper surface of the wings by the guys in Ryiad. I found welded skin underneath the flaked up resin channel on the forward upper surfaces of the wing. I seriously doubt whether is is approved maintenance procedure to do this however, even if it were, as a TIG welder, I would have condemned the welds as poor work and so it certainly didn't roll out of seattle like that! There was also a hole approx a square foot in the upper surface of the wing tip that had been fixed with speed tape and sprayed!!! I believe from talking to other people that the guys in Ryiad only quoted to put right this mess and didn't actually touch the aircraft and I am in no way implicating them in any of this.
Mughrabi however was trying to persuade the crew that the aircraft was completely airworthy and that all the mandatories were in compliance. It's true state was found out later. On contacting Boeing, it was discovered that the AD's were not in compliance or had not been reported to them as so. Heated exchanges were had with Mughrabi regarding where the paperwork for the AD's was if it was true they really had been done. All he would provide us with was an A4 Orangeair letter headed word document unsigned with some new expirey dates. It seemed as if after leaving PIA on its sold as seen flight it magically became a clean aircraft without anyone signing to say they'd done any work. When asked who had completed the mounting bolts and where their paperwork was he would just change the subject and get angry. To top things off the virginal tech log was for a tristar and so the poor number 4 didn't seem to exist.
I did feel rather sorry for the owner of Orangeair who had been conned by Mughrabi into buying a heap of junk with the promise of easily getting it going for the hajj and beyond. Mughrabi claimed to be the head of ground maintenance and also a flight engineer and a First Officer. I suspect like everything else his documents would have been a lie. This man is a serious liar and a danger to aviation full stop. Crews should be vigilent of all the maintenace records this man has ever been involved with. If he had succeded in conning a team into flying an aircraft that was seriously unairworthy we all know the potential consequences. He even attempted to tell us how he could get round the serious avionics work that was required to be done and signed for by using unlicenced mechanics signing for dailys. He claimed we were unaware of how a JAR tech log worked etc. He talks a load of half truths mixed in with a lie to try to baffle one into accepting things. On a good note for the Seirra Leonne CAA, I also saw the emails from the guys there which were effectivly calling him a liar over the maintenance records. They were talking of suspending the AOC if he did not come up with proper evidence of the work done. We all bailed around this point so I don't know what else happened.
All this took a long time to discover with a lot of hanging around in the meantime. Even before we had found out that he was lying about the condition of the aircraft he was back tracking on the pay. Suffice to say we got less than what had been agreed with him. Of major concern is that we might actually have been conned by him into operating an aircraft illegally and unnaware of its very poor condition.
I am dismayed to hear that he has managed to get himself involved in any way whatsoever with aviation again. His name should most definately be on the EU ban list. Given all the talk here about the required mods and maintenace to these old tristars, I would advise anyone considering any involvement with this man to look very carefully at the records to be sure.
I was one of those 747 crewmembers mentioned that were stiffed 2 years ago but it was for a different company called Orange Air Services. They had bought an old PIA 7472 under Mughrabis direction, effectively, "sold as seen" by PIA (I did see the bill of sale in the end after much sifting through paperwork) and were hoping to operate the hajj with it. An aggreement had been made on the remuneration that had exactly the same trap sprung in the end as with you. It was clearly 100USD per day per diem for every day away from our own homes and not from Amman as was later claimed. This was clarified by all. We were driven about from one place to another with some time spent in Tel Aviv with the real boss of Orange Air, an Israeli. The airline was set up as Jordanian based rather than Israeli (for the amusing obvious hajj reasons) with a seirra leonne registration. The boss was in fact honest but had found himself compromised by Mughrabi. He had trusted Mughrabi to deal with sourcing an aircraft for his contracts and to worry about the maintenance, airworthyness and staff hiring etc. Mughrabi had promised him all sorts of wonders with this queen of the sky, an old 7472(I seem to remember 1974) which was out of date on a number of AD's etc. Before my time it had been sent to Ryiad for a C service I believe but returned having only been painted!!! This was before my time and is only what we found out by digging. What we do know for 100% is that it had not had the work done on the AD's (engine mounting bolts among them) and also that it had serious corrosion in the wings and around the bulk hold as marked out in red all over the upper surface of the wings by the guys in Ryiad. I found welded skin underneath the flaked up resin channel on the forward upper surfaces of the wing. I seriously doubt whether is is approved maintenance procedure to do this however, even if it were, as a TIG welder, I would have condemned the welds as poor work and so it certainly didn't roll out of seattle like that! There was also a hole approx a square foot in the upper surface of the wing tip that had been fixed with speed tape and sprayed!!! I believe from talking to other people that the guys in Ryiad only quoted to put right this mess and didn't actually touch the aircraft and I am in no way implicating them in any of this.
Mughrabi however was trying to persuade the crew that the aircraft was completely airworthy and that all the mandatories were in compliance. It's true state was found out later. On contacting Boeing, it was discovered that the AD's were not in compliance or had not been reported to them as so. Heated exchanges were had with Mughrabi regarding where the paperwork for the AD's was if it was true they really had been done. All he would provide us with was an A4 Orangeair letter headed word document unsigned with some new expirey dates. It seemed as if after leaving PIA on its sold as seen flight it magically became a clean aircraft without anyone signing to say they'd done any work. When asked who had completed the mounting bolts and where their paperwork was he would just change the subject and get angry. To top things off the virginal tech log was for a tristar and so the poor number 4 didn't seem to exist.
I did feel rather sorry for the owner of Orangeair who had been conned by Mughrabi into buying a heap of junk with the promise of easily getting it going for the hajj and beyond. Mughrabi claimed to be the head of ground maintenance and also a flight engineer and a First Officer. I suspect like everything else his documents would have been a lie. This man is a serious liar and a danger to aviation full stop. Crews should be vigilent of all the maintenace records this man has ever been involved with. If he had succeded in conning a team into flying an aircraft that was seriously unairworthy we all know the potential consequences. He even attempted to tell us how he could get round the serious avionics work that was required to be done and signed for by using unlicenced mechanics signing for dailys. He claimed we were unaware of how a JAR tech log worked etc. He talks a load of half truths mixed in with a lie to try to baffle one into accepting things. On a good note for the Seirra Leonne CAA, I also saw the emails from the guys there which were effectivly calling him a liar over the maintenance records. They were talking of suspending the AOC if he did not come up with proper evidence of the work done. We all bailed around this point so I don't know what else happened.
All this took a long time to discover with a lot of hanging around in the meantime. Even before we had found out that he was lying about the condition of the aircraft he was back tracking on the pay. Suffice to say we got less than what had been agreed with him. Of major concern is that we might actually have been conned by him into operating an aircraft illegally and unnaware of its very poor condition.
I am dismayed to hear that he has managed to get himself involved in any way whatsoever with aviation again. His name should most definately be on the EU ban list. Given all the talk here about the required mods and maintenace to these old tristars, I would advise anyone considering any involvement with this man to look very carefully at the records to be sure.
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We were cheated severely on the pay by Muhsen Mughrabi.
Per diem and much more.
We were lucky to grab part of our salary and a ticket home.
But is this not the way they do things?
They claim a loss and expect you the cockpit crew to share in this loss for their stupid mistakes!
Who else would fly an empty Tristar to Nigeria without funds up front?
You go back home and when they call you back you insist on the back money they owe you, then when they pay they set you up for the next fall.
Told Mushen I would not be coming back, I hope he has problems finding crews and the FAA shuts him down!
We should have known, payment in advance and a round trip ticket home.
I have been burnt before and should have known better so I can only blame myself.
I had a very severe argument with him in the hotel about his lies and deceit.
The lobby was full of children and I would not even want my own daughter to see two adults acting in this manner so I thought it best to end the argument.
He is really trash, Basem Mitchel's partner in crime!
As far as the failed 747 adventure he stated to me that it was the Jewish friends that stole from them and caused the reduced salary as promised.
This one Moshen Mughrabi and the Riad guy is trouble, lying cheating ali baba thieves.
His down fall is that this airplane is registered in the USA, lets see what happens next!
But am happy to be back home and not having to buy my own ticket back.
What goes around comes back around, his day is coming very soon.
You don't get to cheat lie and deceive forever.
With the N registration rules have to be followed, these people think they can shister USA too, wont happen this time.
No kiss kiss on the cheek here for not following the regs its comply or goodbye!
Per diem and much more.
We were lucky to grab part of our salary and a ticket home.
But is this not the way they do things?
They claim a loss and expect you the cockpit crew to share in this loss for their stupid mistakes!
Who else would fly an empty Tristar to Nigeria without funds up front?
You go back home and when they call you back you insist on the back money they owe you, then when they pay they set you up for the next fall.
Told Mushen I would not be coming back, I hope he has problems finding crews and the FAA shuts him down!
We should have known, payment in advance and a round trip ticket home.
I have been burnt before and should have known better so I can only blame myself.
I had a very severe argument with him in the hotel about his lies and deceit.
The lobby was full of children and I would not even want my own daughter to see two adults acting in this manner so I thought it best to end the argument.
He is really trash, Basem Mitchel's partner in crime!
As far as the failed 747 adventure he stated to me that it was the Jewish friends that stole from them and caused the reduced salary as promised.
This one Moshen Mughrabi and the Riad guy is trouble, lying cheating ali baba thieves.
His down fall is that this airplane is registered in the USA, lets see what happens next!
But am happy to be back home and not having to buy my own ticket back.
What goes around comes back around, his day is coming very soon.
You don't get to cheat lie and deceive forever.
With the N registration rules have to be followed, these people think they can shister USA too, wont happen this time.
No kiss kiss on the cheek here for not following the regs its comply or goodbye!
Last edited by Earl; 15th Oct 2007 at 11:51.
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This sad tale keeps being repeated. Has an underpaid ripped off crew ever seized the aircraft in lieu of payment? Flown to somewhere friendly and started legal proceedings, or am I being naive ? Surely a multi million pound aircraft and tanks of fuel missing should get his attention, and focus his mind on why.
Be lucky
David
Be lucky
David
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We've Got Sticky status
I just noticed we got sticky status
Quote from 411A 23rd July
Quote from CR2 23rd July
Quote from AAL
So a huge thank you to all the TRISTAR artisans who have provided input to this thread. It has been a huge learning curve for me and a fascinating insight. Thanks too to the moderators that have let it run, all 193 posts so far.
: I really do appreciate all your time and trouble. I just wish I owned a book publishers then I could (by way of commission) persuade some of you to write your autobiography, for the benefit of future generations.
Long may this thread continue, please.
Thanks everybody, dry wings and soft landings to you all,
Be lucky
David
Quote from 411A 23rd July
Who would have thought...
...that this would have gone on for five pages.
Imagine.
All this verbal activity about a thirty five year old aeroplane, that is operated in very small numbers....
TriStar, fondly remembered, never equaled.
...that this would have gone on for five pages.
Imagine.
All this verbal activity about a thirty five year old aeroplane, that is operated in very small numbers....
TriStar, fondly remembered, never equaled.
I've been following this thread with interest, mainly for my own education. The one thing that bugs me (as 411A has indirectly indicated) is that it's becoming something of an aircraft spotter's thread.
Let's keep it on a pro- level.
Let's keep it on a pro- level.
Dear Mr Mod,
Think this began to speculate possibilities about a new cargo outfit starting up out of Cyprus intending to use L1011 freighters and grew from there. The debate centred about the possibilities that this might entail seeings that L1011 freighters have become as scarce as hen's teeth.
The "spotting" bit was merely to identify which machines are standing around and might be available for such an intention, and what some's intentions under such circumstances (and opportunity) might be.
The history of the L1011 and the fate of the few last few remaining one's will allways interst enthusiasts. Thank you for tolerating us.
Think this began to speculate possibilities about a new cargo outfit starting up out of Cyprus intending to use L1011 freighters and grew from there. The debate centred about the possibilities that this might entail seeings that L1011 freighters have become as scarce as hen's teeth.
The "spotting" bit was merely to identify which machines are standing around and might be available for such an intention, and what some's intentions under such circumstances (and opportunity) might be.
The history of the L1011 and the fate of the few last few remaining one's will allways interst enthusiasts. Thank you for tolerating us.
: I really do appreciate all your time and trouble. I just wish I owned a book publishers then I could (by way of commission) persuade some of you to write your autobiography, for the benefit of future generations. Long may this thread continue, please.
Thanks everybody, dry wings and soft landings to you all,
Be lucky
David
Last edited by The AvgasDinosaur; 16th Oct 2007 at 11:55. Reason: Spelling and syntax
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Thanks Mr Mod for tolerating my rantings too, and possibly for a slip here and there.
I too have learned a lot and certainly obtained some answers to some eluding questions and concerns. Sorry for dropping a name here and there.
Thank you also for some friends made in the process. Irony is - we still dont know who the new Cargo Outfit Out Of Cyprus is/will be - if ever anyway.
The L1011 remains one of the most remarkable and best aircraft ever built!
Be Lucky and Fly Safe!
I too have learned a lot and certainly obtained some answers to some eluding questions and concerns. Sorry for dropping a name here and there.
Thank you also for some friends made in the process. Irony is - we still dont know who the new Cargo Outfit Out Of Cyprus is/will be - if ever anyway.
The L1011 remains one of the most remarkable and best aircraft ever built!
Be Lucky and Fly Safe!
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The L1011 remains one of the most remarkable and best aircraft ever built!
IF you have experienced ground engineers and knowledgeable pilots, it has no equal, with regard to superbly safe air transportation.
The devil is certainly in the details.
One has to actually fly the aeroplane for awhile to appreciate the careful thought that went into the design...a true gentlemens airplane.
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N194at
Quote 411A:
According to some yes, but.... it must be remembered that the Lockheed L1011 however superb in systems redundancy (certainly a fact, not disputed, nothing finer) it must be maintained properly, otherwise all is not good.
IF you have experienced ground engineers and knowledgeable pilots, it has no equal, with regard to superbly safe air transportation.
The devil is certainly in the details.
Earl:
Yes you are correct in this 411A.
There is not many ground engineers left that can do this.
Current and qualified Tristar front end crews are becoming hard to find.
The biggest problem with these people is that they have to pay the crews and ground engineers correctly.
Pilots and ground engineers can do many things to help a company succeed.
But when the owners/managers decide they don't have to pay the very individuals that are the life line of the operation then the whole operation goes down.
If you promise a Captain 266 usd a day and a F/O and F/E 200 usd a day then pay it.
Everyone looked the other way on many issues that should not have happened, still they did not pay us correctly.
Take care of the crews and ground engineers, the company will go far.
Cheat and lie to us ,the company will fail.
Now there are 2 companies in Jordan to avoid, every time one of us works for these 2 it hurts everyone else in collecting the pay and drags the industry to a lower level!
Good companies that pay don't get contracts because these 2 still stay in operation.
Think sometimes we are our own worst enemy!
According to some yes, but.... it must be remembered that the Lockheed L1011 however superb in systems redundancy (certainly a fact, not disputed, nothing finer) it must be maintained properly, otherwise all is not good.
IF you have experienced ground engineers and knowledgeable pilots, it has no equal, with regard to superbly safe air transportation.
The devil is certainly in the details.
Earl:
Yes you are correct in this 411A.
There is not many ground engineers left that can do this.
Current and qualified Tristar front end crews are becoming hard to find.
The biggest problem with these people is that they have to pay the crews and ground engineers correctly.
Pilots and ground engineers can do many things to help a company succeed.
But when the owners/managers decide they don't have to pay the very individuals that are the life line of the operation then the whole operation goes down.
If you promise a Captain 266 usd a day and a F/O and F/E 200 usd a day then pay it.
Everyone looked the other way on many issues that should not have happened, still they did not pay us correctly.
Take care of the crews and ground engineers, the company will go far.
Cheat and lie to us ,the company will fail.
Now there are 2 companies in Jordan to avoid, every time one of us works for these 2 it hurts everyone else in collecting the pay and drags the industry to a lower level!
Good companies that pay don't get contracts because these 2 still stay in operation.
Think sometimes we are our own worst enemy!
Last edited by Earl; 18th Oct 2007 at 01:16.
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N194at
After doing some research on this aircraft from a very reliable source it is due a D check and the very expensive engine A/D due August 2006 has not been accomplished.
If they get caught it could spell some trouble.
Its starting to appear as the same snow job he did with the 747.
If they get caught it could spell some trouble.
Its starting to appear as the same snow job he did with the 747.
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New Ad on climb to 350 looking for FAA licensed crew, 3 month contract.
Company name is Omarwings out of Amman Jordan.
No address or phone numbers.
Is this the same guy, just changed his name again?
Company name is Omarwings out of Amman Jordan.
No address or phone numbers.
Is this the same guy, just changed his name again?
Earl,
Well done for keeping us updated in the happenings there in Jordan......If you have saved crew from going through the problems of no pay bad accomodation or just bad management then you have done your bit for today and for that I salute you sir......Together the L1011 fraternity will keep these thugs away from ruining our lives, I took one lot through a solicitor and won, not all they owed me but some but at least they realised not to mess with crew....That lot did not employ UK or FAA licenced guys any more as we kept the guys we knew in the loop, just as you are doing now. Lets just hope that anyone qualified to fly the L1011 reads these pages or if they dont and any of you guys out there hear that they may be tempted give them this thread to look at.
Once again well done.....
Fergi
Well done for keeping us updated in the happenings there in Jordan......If you have saved crew from going through the problems of no pay bad accomodation or just bad management then you have done your bit for today and for that I salute you sir......Together the L1011 fraternity will keep these thugs away from ruining our lives, I took one lot through a solicitor and won, not all they owed me but some but at least they realised not to mess with crew....That lot did not employ UK or FAA licenced guys any more as we kept the guys we knew in the loop, just as you are doing now. Lets just hope that anyone qualified to fly the L1011 reads these pages or if they dont and any of you guys out there hear that they may be tempted give them this thread to look at.
Once again well done.....
Fergi
you cant rush these start ups you know.