Polar Air Cargo to get four 747-400F's!

[Whale Rider]

Polar Air Cargo to recieve four 747-400F's, all pilots to return to service! Thats the rumor. Anyone confirm????

[WhaleFR8]

<sigh>

Where do you imagine they would get the airplanes from?

[whaledriver101]

Where are they going to get the -400's from?? Take a wild guess

[WhaleDriver]

If Atlas is the source of the -400's for this fantasy, think again. All the Atlas -400's are on full time contracts thru 2008 and actually making money.

You have to get back on your meds, or illusions of granduer will continue.

[iahtexan747400]

I imagine AAWW will want the Polar MEC to agree to a one list merger w/ Atlas before any more growth to occur. DHL's contract is soon to start so we'll see what happens.

[742]

There is another possible source for some -400s. I mention this not to feed rumors, but because it would make sense. The new CEO just dealt with the Atlas pilots major issue (STN). If he wants labor peace it makes sense for him to deal with the Polar's pilot's major issue.

As long as Atlas does not get stripped of airplanes (I am an Atlas guy) and this rumor is true, I think this is a good thing. We need to get this merger done and behind us, and the more working airplanes in the final mix the better for all of us.

[mercpc9]

I think Whale Rider is talking about the recent grievance filed by the Polar MEC Chairman Bobb Henderson making another attempt to get A/C and crews back via the grievance process. I can't remember which of the previous grievance arbitrations (Holden or Harris) that involved attempting similar that didn't get the A/C back but got the crews back pay until they are furloughed properly. The latter happening when the alliance flying stops and Polar gets an Atlas -200 to furlough off the remaining unnecessary Polar crews collecting checks while sitting at home. This is coming soon and is probably what prompted this new grievance to get what he didn't get in the other arbitration award.

I think the premise on the new grievance is on the post strike "back to work agreement" that I believe both management and the Polar MEC violated. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black scenario. Curious how this will turn out. Maybe it is another way to attempt dragging out the Atlas/Polar merger also.

mercpc9

[whaledriver101]

IAHTexan,,There wont be a merger if Atlas MEC does not agree to a "time line fence". And a damn long one at that. Your right,,, The DHL contract is soon to start(this summer). And I believe with alot of DHL control(routes, scheduling etc,,).Polar pilots will "dribble the clock out". See what happens.

[WhaleFR8]

There will be no timeline fence - ever. To do so would violate the Harris arbitration and possibly vacate the entire seniority list. This will never happen. So if there will be no merger, then there will be no more Polar. It truly is a shame.

Is Henderson is leaving the airline? I wonder how much he really cares what happens to his guys.

The beginning of this thread was one of those "start a rumor and hope it comes true" kind of things, as well as a poor attempt to start the fight again.

Rat you should close this before it gets out of hand.

[CR2]

Duly noted & eyes are open.

Try moderating yourselves on this one

The thread title was about PO getting 400s. Discuss! CLX will be getting rid of 400s as the -8s come online...

[Po Boy]

Rider,

Please put that crack pipe down, and step away from the keyboard

All kidding aside, source please? Don't say Bobbbbb told you so.

[WhaleFR8]

Well that is easy then - by the time the CLX -400's come available, Atlas will have already taken delivery of their own -8Fs. It is of course, possible, that they would be interested in the CLX freighters, but it doesn't seem to fit with the business plan they have announced. By that time, Polar will already have been long absorbed into the fold (one way or another) and it would make more sense to exercise the remaining 14 options Atlas has for the -8F.

So to say that "Polar" is getting four -400s, even now, would be incorrect. Polar doesn't own the five that they are operating. They are all owned by, or the leases are held by, Atlas Air World Wide Holdings. It just seems kind of pointless for all of us to suffer the drama, as AAWWH will do what they wish with those airplanes, and with the Polar business unit, without any interference by the Polar or the Atlas pilots. Every MEC in history has thought they could manipulate the company through job actions or relationships with the Board of Directors. It NEVER happens. The best we could do was agree on our own seniority list. And no one is happy with that, so it must mean the arbitrator did his job properly. Now that it is done, it is time to move forward.

The DHL contract is soon to start(this summer). And I believe with alot of DHL control(routes, scheduling etc,,).Polar pilots will "dribble the clock out". See what happens. Today 03:25

Unfortunately the above statement is incorrect. The DHL deal does not start until 2008 - so Polar pilots will have to dribble for quite a long time. And the fact of the matter is that Polar Air Cargo is going away. The DHL deal is with "Polar Air World Wide," which is a different company that could conceivably be staffed with only Atlas pilots if the Polar pilots continue to dribble. The merger will go through with or without the Polar pilots. It is long past time they got on board.

[Ganbare]

mercpc9,

I want one of those eyes, where can I get it?

[elk]

For those that don't know what the hold up with the "merger" is, I thought I would post this section of the Polar CBA.
C. SUCCESSORSHIP.
1. This Agreement shall be binding upon any successor of the Company, including, without limitation, any merged company or companies, assignee, purchaser, transferee, administrator, receiver, executor, and/or trustee of the Company, unless and until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act. For purposes of this paragraph, a successor shall be defined as an entity which acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company through a single transaction or multi-step related transactions that close within a twelve (12) month period. Subject to the provisions of Paragraph D below (if applicable), the Company shall require a successor to assume and be bound by all the terms of this Agreement as a condition of any transaction that results in a successor.


I think the Polar Pilots, along with their contract, will be going to "Polar Air Worldwide." Unless, of course, Ca*o wants to lose at arbitration again.

[WhaleFR8]

C. SUCCESSORSHIP.
1. This Agreement shall be binding upon any successor of the Company, including, without limitation, any merged company or companies, assignee, purchaser, transferee, administrator, receiver, executor, and/or trustee of the Company, unless and until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act. For purposes of this paragraph, a successor shall be defined as an entity which acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company through a single transaction or multi-step related transactions that close within a twelve (12) month period.

This has already been done. Altas purchased Polar many years ago, and has abided by your CBA (which is now amendable) since then. I wouldn't hang my hat on this particular paragraph. I can assure you that AAWW is not going to put a contract such as the DHL deal in jeopardy for a handful of pilots - especially not when they have an arbitrated merged seniority list that complies with the Polar CBA and ALPA merger policy, even if it doesn't jell with Robin's idea of how things should have gone.

I doubt there is a court in the land that would not agree that AAWW has been more than fair with the Polar group. Now it is time to put your big girl panties on and move forward.

....Or, you could win another battle, lose the war, lose your job, and go to court in a dozen years or so. Isn't it time to finish this merger and get on with making some real money?

[whaledriver101]

The only thing that held up the merger was the "time line fence" disagreement.

We realize all the Atlas pilots want to "get along & move on". Well,,, No fence,, no merger!!. Its as simple as that.

[mercpc9]

Well, it seems that we have strayed into something other than -400's and crews coming back.

I would suggest starting a thread on the merger. Oh wait, I think there has already been one or two.

As far as "time line fence", that was addressed by one of the previous arbitrations and this recent try during merger discussions is only another attempt to get what Polar didn't get in the previous seniority list arbitration.

Unless there is something specific to -400 and crews coming back I would suggest closing this one down.

[atlast]

Back to the thread. Atlas had four 400F conversion slots but it let them go. It couldn't complete financing on the 800F order with the increased debt load.

[WhaleFR8]

Back to the thread. Atlas had four 400F conversion slots but it let them go. It couldn't complete financing on the 800F order with the increased debt load. Today

Ummm ... that was not the reason. The -400 conversions are just too expensive if you don't own the airframe or lease already. The cost to purchase the airframe, coupled with the cost of the conversion, could not be amortized in the life left on the airframes of any of the available passenger -400s. So, since they would not be able to make any money on the conversion, Atlas passed on their slots. That decsion was made well before the announcement of the -8F purchases. Who knows if financing played a part. It sure could have, but that was also during the regime change so who knows.

BTW - the company web-site categorically denies any new aircraft coming to the current Polar fleet.

[Furloughed]

Polar Air Cargo to recieve four 747-400F's, all pilots to return to service! Thats the rumor. Anyone confirm????

Back on topic -

400 conversions alive again with the 4 confirmed ( and possibly the 6 options as well) growth aircraft for Polar.

Training dept says Polar to be interviewing late summer or early fall.