Which airlines have seniority based transfers and what are the conditions?

Many pilots in CX wouldn't have a clue that seniority based transfers are possible nor many other benifits, that's the benifit of hiring only cadets with little to no airline knowledge, they can't complain about what they don't know about.

Perhaps the AOA should educate new joiners on what CX doesn't have that other airlines do!

And I'm sure the DC3 guys used to complain about the easy lifestyles of those on the DC4. Death, taxes, nurses and complaining pilots!

Geez...mgmt must be loving this thread!

Ah yes, the bad ole daze of the Cathay DC-4:
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/...ket/VR-HEU.jpg

Actually, the two airlines at Cathay Pacific are:

1. Those who are just busting to get into training, so that they can have a greatly increased workload for a few lousy bucks, train pilots on reduced conditions to themselves who will eventually replace them, bitch about their training roster, and have 'Training Captain, Cathay Pacific Airways' on their business card.

2. Those who think that those in Airline No. 1 are prats.

Hey! That's Laurie King in the picture.

Yes I have to agree... Cathay has many different brands... :rolleyes:
CATHAY DRAGON
CATHAY 777
CATHAY AIRBUS
CATHAY CARGO

The work load is not fair:*

evansb

A nice slither of irony.

bad ole daze..indeed it was for VR-HEU which was shot down by the Chinese off Hainan Island in 1954.

Fortuitously they have now turned their canons away from aircraft to focus on the global financial markets.

Yep I spent quite a bit of time on the 777 during the 2,000's and can totally agree with Jonathan.

Lots of sectors, ZERO overtime.

When the ER arrived I got overtime ONCE.

Now I'm on the Bus it's the reverse!! Never mind.

Anotherbusdriver is 100% spot on.

For Airbus and 747 crews,seniority based type transfer is the number one issue, above all of the other multiple issues that we face, in order to see some light at the end of a long,dark tunnel.
For 777 crews, it is at the bottom of the list.

So...quite a discrepancy. It is just a matter of time before non-777 crews start making their own deals simply to survive, contract compliance or not.

I disagree. Rostering improvements would mitigate the majority of this issue and positively impact all fleets. Going after seniority type transefers as a top priority is short-sighted and foolish.

Have to agree with Jonathan.
Was the same B747 vs L1011 in the eighties, then in the 90's the -400 got the best rosters. 'bus was okay into the noughties while the 340's were flying, the B777 ate !!!!!. How time changes!
I've flown them all, some good rosters, some bad. Like Jonathan said; get some time in - no instant gratification here.

There are two types that agree with Jonathan, those who have their heads burried in the sand, or those who know they're riding the gravy train and don't want it to end.

The 330 has been around as long as the 777, so what do you think the 330 was doing back in the 777 regional days. Yes exactly, it was flying the same regional roster as the 777, but nobody complained because the rosters were manageable and sustainable.

But for you 777 guys to say that the old 777 roster is the same as the current Airbus roster is insulting and offensive. This current Airbus roster is NOT manageable and NOT sustainable with the constant roster abuses, the constant patterns through wocl, the constant late finishes, early starts. The sickness rate is the highest it's ever been on any fleet, that alone should tell you morons something. There are plenty of very very senior Captains that had their names on the 777 list but were constantly bumped by a completely junior crew doing a command upgrade and so have been stuck. Whereas most on the old 777 roster flew the 777 for a few years before moving on to the jumbo in seniority.

As somoneone pointed out, why not compare an old 777 regional roster to a current airbus roster and run both through a fatigue monitoring program. It's easy to put this argument to bed, but I suspect nobody will because why let the facts get in the way of a false 777 belief.

Another view. I've had good and bad, I'm currently on the 777 and I totally agree, it's good and it's unfair and most of those arguing against that are being disingenuous. I do not however feel personally guilty about being here, it's luck and lottery and most will get their share throughout a full career. When faced with the Fleet transfer or upgrade letter/NTC which fits ones personal timing, how many people will scour the seniority list to find peers in other situations and seek to D and G the company to give their chance away, even if that were possible? Can we be honest with ourselves, true to the concept of Union and fight the unfair rules, not each other?

So, the only fair solution is to have a seniority based type transfer system, but I doubt you'd get many 777'ers wanting or supporting that.
This has the potential to become the most divisive issue in CX pilot history.

British Airways have a system where you bid every year for a fleet. Once on the type you're frozen for 5 years but you can still bid every year and it has not been uncommon for them to waive the type freeze.

Yes 1200firm.

The only fair system is to have a type transfer system based on real seniority.

There are people doing their initial commands now who have spent the past 8 years as a cruisy long haul First Officer. That Command slot (their initial command!) is coveted by at least 300 more senior Captains, locked into rubbish lifestyles on the Airbus and 744, who would be at least 1,000 numbers/ 15 years more Senior, and whose lives have been rubbish for those past 8 years locked in on a fleet they do not wish to be on. All the while working diligently to the point of exhaustion as a Captain for this Company.

How is that in any way fair?

The company at least should show loyalty to those here longest and let "fleet market forces" create a top heavy career path for those with experience, and those who have done their time around the region, keeping employees motivated by the carrot of a nice long haul roster farther down the track.

Sorry if the 777 guys do not like it. But if you are one of them, and you are locking in a slot well below your seniority, then whether you are upset or not, it is just completely really wrong.

If I were a junior Capt on the 777, I'd rather be a on a junior fleet now with the knowledge that one day when I have advanced in seniority enough, I'd be able to move to the fleet of choice. As it stands now, the entire system is a one-way crapshoot. The optimum fleet today will most certainly not be the optimum fleet a decade from now.

Of course there is a tangible cost to this, with intangible benefits, so it's safe to say it'll never happen with this management style.

A bunch of 777 captains will drafted in March.

Welcome to the fleet with the best rest in J-class. At least they will be able to pick the "middle" without ever having done "first rest" during the meal service.

These are exactly the problems that so called Senior Management should be looking at and addressing. There can be nothing more debilitating than to be the 'victim' of a poorly managed system that has been left to morph into an even worse poorly managed system.
Farting into the wind with this lot though -I'm afraid. Where would you start???
Come on Anna!!!