Cathay's Pay
 

Is it still true that FO's with Cathay are the highest payed in the world

No! who on earth would feed you such rubbish? :rolleyes:

"PAID":ugh:

Who is then??

And how much do Cathays FO's get paid then??

Approximately 3 shillings and six pence a day and still have enough change for a bag of chips on the way home.

Actually its quite rude to ask such a direct personal question. Answer is it's just enough to keep us off the streets.

...........and it's 'Cathay's FOs'

enough to keep you off the streets
 

You forgot to mention that they buy you an apartment!To add to the 3 others that you have (CX has paid for) - greedy prick get on with it and stop whining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

routetuner, you really do not have a clue do you? Why don't you grace us with you extensive knowledge of the CX "apartment buying scheme".
Perhaps the truth is not as appealing. Why don't you try for a job with the Murdoch press-I think you are more than qualified.

Route Tuner,

Just relax old boy and stop being so aggressive. Just a turn of phrase and not meant as a literal statement of earnings. Your tone is just typical of what has become quite the norm around here. The abused have become the abusers I suspect.

CX Housing
 

The housing scheme is the only thing worthwhile about CX right now in terms of pay. The basic pay you get is crap in terms of your home currency (GBP, EUR, CHF, AUD, NZD, CAD etc). And with the demise of the USD, it won't be getting better any time soon. Also, inflation is on the rise here in Hong Kong. Food prices are up, house prices are up and transport prices are on the rise too.

So the 2 options are to rent or buy. If you rent, then you need to wait 2 years to get a decent enough allowance to get something even close to what is comfortable - especially with a family. Unfortunately it is dead money though.

If you buy, then there are a few considerations. First, you generally need to come up with 30% deposit. That's alot of money on a 9million dollar home. Sure, you might be able to sort out another option(personal loan, cooperative bank etc), but that's another story. Secondly, don't forget the stamp duty. That can be 250k or more on that 9 million dollar property. Thirdly, because the housing allowance is paid as a cash allowance, it is fully taxed at 15 or so %. This you need to account for as it will come out of your basic pay - not the allowance itself. Lastly, you are at the mercy of the property market. That entails a mixture of luck, balls and timing. There is potential to make a bundle of cash, But there is also the risk of being in negative equity too. So between the 30% deposit, paying tax on the housing allowance and paying the stamp duty out of your own pocket, the concept of CX paying a property off completely for you is a myth. Sure you can make capital gain, but the timing has to be right.

how can you be in "Negative Equity" on a property you are not paying for???

worst ways you wait till the market recovers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Its YOUR name on the contract & mortgage with the bank, not Cathay's. So at the end of the day you're responsible for the debt. Negative equity=house worth less than the mortgage you owe the bank. All well & good to say CX is "paying" for it all, but they only do it for 15 years before you revert to the basic allowance of 24K p/m....would be a shame to be stuck in a flat paying it down b/c of negative equity whilst others have moved on to buying their second & third flats all b/c you timed the market wrongly:8

Sounds easier to get ahead finacially in HK then in the US or OZ where airlines dont pay for your mortage, rent etc. I do understand that housing is beacuse of being an expat but having worked in Asia now back home in a westernised society, its bluddy expensive!! Interest rates for buying property has skyrocketted, at least if your careful and smart with your housing allowance you can do well out off HK and come back in a few years with either CX or someone else a wealthier hopefully wiser person

course you could work for Great lakes...i believe their Ops man says they can't use food stamps in uniform

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...eat_lakes.html

Rick.shaw's got it right....been there done that.
You are at the mercy of a very volatile housing market and I got burnt.
It's not free money and you pay tax on it.

Of course it's free money but that doesn't mean you can act without connecting your brain.

The Messiah
 

You are correct - you do need to be intelligent about it. But how do you know when to buy and how much to pay?

Those that bought in 1996 and 1997 are still waiting to break even on their purchases. The best time to buy is when doom and gloom is greatest - after 1989 Tianenem square, or 2003 after SARS. Of course I only know that with hindsight - after the Asian Contagion looked like a good opportunity but prices continued to fall for another 3-5 years after that.

The best way to decide to buy or not is to do a 'what if' analysis and see if you can live with all the potential outcomes. Obviously if the property rises or stays at the same price you will make money over time. But unfortunately the HKG market has been more volatile than most and there have been multi year periods of falling prices.

A NC 'what if'

The assumptions.
Purchase price $9.6M
Stamp Duty/purchase costs $400K
Average Interest rate 5%
Housing Allowance $67K/month
Management fees/Gov rates+rent $60K pa
No repairs!
Tax 15%
Borrow 100% of property value and purchase costs (this allows for the opportunity cost of having your own money tied up in the property)

Monthly cash flow
Income $67K

Costs
Interest $41,667
mgmt/gov rates $5,000
Tax on Inc $10,050


Excess of income over costs
$10,283

So over 6 years you will have paid off close to a million. So from owing $10million on a $9.6million property you will now owe about $9million.

So as long as Hong Kong property doesn't go down by 7% you will make some money.

What ifwe have a repeat of 1997 - lets say prices fall 50% over 6 years ( I think the actual price fall was between 60-70%). You will be in negative equity of around $4million. Remember that in 1994 onwards it seemed like a sure bet buying HKG property as it had been rising for five years, since 1989. And here we are today with a sure thing in that prices have risen for five years since SARS.

No one I know can predict the future so not trying to predict a decline. But do your analysis based on all possible outcomes and make sure you are happy with all outcomes. If you buy for $10million then in 6 years a 10% decline in property will have cost you money overall!

Note. If you bought a $4.8m place using the same assumptions then after 6 years you would owe about half - so much safer bet. But good luck finding a place you want your spouse and kids to live in for around $5m!

...and for Gods' sake take out the loss of licence and loss of income options of the benefit scheme. As noted above, YOU are the mortgage holder, and HSBC will still be banging on your door for their money whether you've lost your licence or not. A lot of guys made a lot of money to give to their first wives (and sometimes their second and third wives too), but some guys really !!!!! out too. As always, plan for the worst, and hope for the best!:8

....and don't EVER think it can't happen to you!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7354346.stm

I'm not flaming anyone here, but for a little perspective on things in the big picture, check out:

GlobalRichList

Select your currency and annual salary and see where you rank. See the big picture in 7 seconds . . .

Trying to make yourself feel better or trying to justify working for peanuts? Which is it?

Easy tiger
 

Firey:

Easy, texas was just trying to make you think a little, guess it didn't work.

Amazingly enough the U.S.and British poverty line incomes ( 10 000 usd and 16 000 BP) puts you in the top 15-10 %

Think about that too !

Cheers

FG

Thanks, Five Green.

NC you forgot to mention that, since we're now doing 18 or 20 years as an F/O you will have to buy and take the risk. You can't sit back and rent on F/O pay for an extra 10 years and recoup what you have lost any other way.

And no, between you and the AOA I haven't yet found any F/O's happy to go 20 yrs right seat. You wouldn't happen to know why KA housing now stretches to 25 years while CX stays at 15?

EK vs CX
 

I was bored yesterday so did the calculations of EK career earnings vs CX based on the latest payrises.

First, the assumptions.
I ignored the fact that EK profit share has been bigger than CX 13th month and profit share for the last few years.
I ignored transport costs(how much does it cost you to get to CX and back per month?)
I ignored free utilities in EK
I ignored the non existent inflation of both countries!!!
I ignored tax on housing/education
I assumed you work exactly 84 hours per month in both airlines
I ignored ERP (that is worth up to 7.5% of salary)
I used command after 5 years in EK when maybe 3 is more realistic?

Based on all of that after 10 years you would be 33% ahead in EK, after tax. Not going to comment on which airline or place is better to live in as that is not a quantifiable variable. But paywise, EK is way ahead! After 27 years at CX your pay will be higher(just) than at EK! So those at CX should hang in there and not feel despondent - you never know, we might get 3% again in the next 6-7 years!