Stop Working On G Days
 

title says it all!

Don't worry, I'm never in HK on G days what with this sh1te weather.

It sounds so simple!
but I guess we are a simple lot! :ugh:

Try telling the boys flying 289 on the 24th. Seems so simple oh so simple.

O days are no credit, unscheduled reserve days. Expect to be working more O days. Future rosters will be minimum G day rosters.:sad:

No messages after yr flight??? Your O day is now a G...... So treat it accordingly......... If you do get a message on an O straight after yr flight, bad luck.

and the the Relief who did CX830 on the 23rd ,

keep em comin

greencandreaming: and the 24th!

Without any directive at the moment from anyone with regards to industrial action of any kind, I would have thought it is every pilots individual choice whether or not to work G days, particularly as the call out fee is something that was negotiated by the AOA.

Posting names on here is cowardice at best. Why don't you confront them face to face and come out from behind your cloak of anonymity.

Quick! Everyone for themselves!!:ok::ugh:

No not at all, but there is nothing proactive about this thread. Attempting to embarass someone does nothing to get them onside.

But they received 30 hours in EFP. Of course they are going to work on a G days.:ok:

Big dollars. Work it out.

Mesiah, there is no direction, that is why we are having to take things into our own hands. The AoA are too busy playing the diplomacy card so it is up to us to give the company a little reminder at how much they rely on good will from the pilot body. If everyone did it for a while then hey ya never know, there may be just enough pressure to force the company into looking at increasing our salaraies and hey presto, more money and no need to work G days, rather, spend it with your family!!!
Lets not forget this company is making BILLIONS!!!!!!!
Names are not being used in this forum and i agree they should not. If a flight is mentioned then it is up to individuals if they want to check. I personally couldnt be bothered, i checked the NYC for other reasons and saw the 2 Captains on both of todays NYC.
Once again we are our own worst enemies!!:ugh:

A friend of mine worked G's often and, having recently been told about this thread he said "stuff them, if they are too gutless to say it to my face I will work more G's now". Over a beer I explained to him the knock on effect of his actions not only to everyone else but to himself. He said, "yeah I never really thought of it like that", and he no longer works G's. Some guys have honestly never really though about it.

If these anonymous guys on here know who are working G's why not give them a call as a colleague for a chat instead of perpetuating the angst amongst the pilot body and playing into the 'divide and conquer' hands of the company.

If you are as you say, "taking matters into our own hands" at least do it with some professionalism, not on here.

What you say sounds like sense......until one of the G day workers (there must be a better name for them, where is jizzmonkey when you need him) goes to KJP and complains of being harassed by 'X' because he was 'helping the company out'. Yet another kangaroo court and dismissal methinks.....:ugh:

Who said anything about harass? Spitting on someone is harassment.

Let's see who commands the CX 261 on March 3rd.:confused:

I can think of much worse names for these scabs...:mad:

When you forgo short-term rewards for the purpose of benefiting the community as a whole in the longer run, there will always be at least one self-centered individual who will see an advantage for himself to not toe the party line.

Unless such individuals are publicly named and shamed for their actions, they will see no reason why not to continue their selfish behaviour. In fact, the lack of negative feedback only serves to reinforce their anti-social response.

Management also use the same tactics as the self-centered individuals. Management are a bunch of individuals that pretend to act as a team when it suits their purpose. But, when things go awry, they will eat each others young to protect themselves and their own selfish interests (watch carefully the management fallout from the flypast incident).

We have only ourselves to blame for allowing them to get away with what they do.

You are 110 % correct , FlexibleResponse

could NOT put it any better myself .

The point of this thread was not to name people who work on G days!
It was started out of pure frustration at the short sighted view of people hungry for 2000Hk call out! naming people does nothing but split the pilot body when they should be banding together!
For once in twenty years it would be nice to see the "EVERYONE FOR THEMSELVES" attitude put on the backburner, because if we didnt have that attitude in the first place we wouldnt be where we are today with the conditions hitting in my opinion the lowest that they can go before the old saying of "you could earn more driving a cab" actually applies!:bored:

End Game?
 

As someone who has previously worked "g" days, I am prepared to join your crusade.... however... can anyone specify what the "end game" looks like... a rise in the "G" compensation.... a bit of respect... A scales for everyone.. or the satisfaction of knowing you caused the company some grief:rolleyes:

Any takers to answer that one?

Liam Gallagher

Increased reserve days, minimum “G” days (8), and increased agro rostering from the company. Does that mean I will work “G’s”? No but I’m a realist.:uhoh:

Liam...The end game is that as long as you work on G days, Cx will have no requirement to fix our conditions. Nothing more elaborate than that.

Cannot
 

Liam

My G-days used to be occasionally available to help out our employer - but no longer.

On my G-days phone answering machine very definitely turned on and/or family well-briefed on what to say should a 2747 number appear on the display. I do not blame the guys and gals in CC - they are doing a thankless job. Ask what their staff turnover has been over the last 12 months or so - says it all.

I am noticing an insidious build up of fatigue levels in some of my long haul colleagues over the last 12-18 months. Anyone else noticing? Is there a reason for this?:ugh:
PRA anyone?

Bottom line is it will only get worse unless there is a massive economic slow down.

G days are for resting NOT digging this lot out continuosly

Nullaman,

Good for you... G days are undeniably your day to do with as you please...

however, this thread has developed into a vigalante's "name and shame" playground, which I could almost respect if we had even the most informally agreed strategy in place....but we don't. I note that none of the promoters of this strategy can come on here, even protected by anonominity, and state an end game.

Frogman claims that such a strategy may force CX to "fix our conditions". I have no idea what "fix our conditions" means; except it doesn't motivate me to turn down the opportunity of a small bucket of cash and the ability to write my own roster in the short term... which kind of "fixes my conditions" in the short term at least.

If someone has a vision of what CX's response would be to a few cancelled flights; I... like many... are prepared to listen. In the absense of such, most of the posters on this thread seem to be enjoying the "name and shame" process a bit too much for my liking.

Perhaps 404 Titan is on target with his prediction.....

Three calls this week! :eek: All straight to messagebank. One would have been excellent for me, but for the greater good of the group I didn't call them back.

It is time we were all less selfish and stopped working on Gs. If they park an aircraft, that will cost them $$, they will then realise they need more pilots, and to get them, they will have to improve T&C.

Well that is my simple POV anyway. :}

Liam

It's difficult to see a specific end game in sight except for the one thing that everyone understands - more money. The recent payrise and unforced increase in profit share are a step in the right direction and an indicator that the company know they need to buy some good will.
Who knows whether not working G's will help? At the moment it's just making CC's job more difficult and probably costing them more in overtime. However, it's just possible that someday soon a flight or two will be cancelled due crew shortage that will cause some embarrassment (ie. not just a TPE-HKG that can be easily covered up). When that happens, two groups of people will wake up. Firstly the management who will have egg on their face and may have to do something to stop the rot and secondly, the pilot group who will see the effect that not working G's by a some is having. They then may see that if we all do it then the management's cause will become more pressing.
I'm not greedy but I do think a reasonable payrise is due and am in no mood to help out the company on my days off, particularly after the kick in the teeth they gave us at the end of last year.

Hypothesis. Every CX pilot refuses to work any G days.
Result. Every CX pilot is rostered for minimum G days and what used to be excess G days will now be Reserve or O days. 7 days off in 28, averaged out to 8 per 28 for 3 x 28 periods but subject to annual total of 102(?) G days. The rest would be reserve and O days.

If CX rostered defensively now, then not working on a G day would have no effect as they would have extra reserve coverage. Also we would likely need every G day for legal reasons...1 in 7, 2 in 14 etc

If it makes you feel good to not work a G day then don't. But don't kid yourself that you have somehow brought the airline to its knees. The last time we had contract compliance 90% of the effect of it was on disrupting our own rosters.

WOE, contract compliance and no G day working are about sending a message, not causing damage. Either CX has enough pilots or it doesn't. I have seen FOs do a westward ULR, 2 days off and then called out for eastward ULR. Its not like them not working G days had much effect given they are working to AFTLS limits anyway.

Morale is low and everyone wants to lash out...but doing so at your peers is hardly helpful or effective. Some lashed out at the first B scalers for taking the job on such poor terms. Then we lashed out at the new joiners during the recruitment ban. Now the CoS08 joiners as well????? Seems like picking on a segment within the pilot body hasnt been too effective in the past!

How ?
 

Number man !

Whats the remedy then ?
In order to bring the airline to its knees.

Or even better if guys like you can talk to them and make that win/win
Wondering, if the cost of over time pay is more than the cost of all crew on A-scale?


All on the same scale,
A-SCALE
July 1st. 2008

Some good stuff here.. thanks
 

Don't get me wrong; if you don't want to work a G-day.. don't...end of argument.

However, the last few flights I have operated with people who are flying on their G-days. Some on here would suggest they should be burnt at the stake; but as NC says there's no guidance from the AOA and no certainty that a unified stance (albeit informal) would produce the response we desire (which seems to vary from individual to individual). Equally, I can't help feel that no unified response will result in "same-old-same old...."

It's a tough one and I have sympathy with both sides of the argument....

As I see it there are a couple of courses of action for us to follow:The choice seems simple to me...

Numero seems to have it sorted out (as usual).
The last thing we need is defensive rostering, so unofficial CC is the way to go.
The latest pay adjustments and profit share show we are doing a few things right!
We are the AOA...keep up support and tell non-members.

Whether you do it officially or not.... the day a flight is cancelled and bad press is received is the day the company will up the g-day callout pay and/or move to more defensive rostering.

Interestingly, the guys who I flew with who were working G-days achieved overtime by bringing flights forward into the current month... they are probably not going to fly more hours in a 2 month period; just more in the current (overtime) month. Therefore, the hours/fatigue issue is not huge.

A big problem with CX, or any big corporation, is ownership. The people making decisions do not own the company so they don't really care what the long term effect is of their decisions. Why spend $10 today to save $20 five years from now when instead you can cut $10 today and get a bonus....five years from now you are moved somewhere else in the swire empire so it becomes SEP(somebody elses' problem)!

The zoologist has told us we have the right number of crew, ergo we will not have much of an overtime bill this year. Over the last couple of months many crew I speak to are doing 90-105hrs and getting more overtime than they ever have before. But as Liam has alluded to, they average 84hrs but distributed poorly thanks to the knockon effects of people working G days and disrupting their published roster!

So maybe working G days, disrupting the roster and causing lots of overtime might have an effect on management after all. After all the corporate culture here is 'penny wise, pound foolish'.

My view, FWIW, is that working G days should be up to the individual until we, as a collective group, decide otherwise. I know many people feel we shouldn't work on G days. So get your committee to make it a motion and vote on it. In the meantime we have no moral right or imperative to pass judgement on the actions of our peers for a viewpoint that has not achieved a democratic consensus.

I am still unconvinced as to the material effect of contract compliance on the operation. What contract compliance does do though, is send a loud and clear message - and what the company hates is airing of dirty laundry. They have been lucky so far in that the AOA GC has kept our dissent 'in house' thus far, unlike KA.

Maybe our month's profit share will buy our acquiescence....and the extra 6% for UFOs means it is only a 20% paycut to join as a DEFO now cf last year.

Still, my training has no more prepared me for making accurate business suppositions than a zoology degree does in preparing you for running an airline;-)

Aura and presence...
 

NC, my Dear Chap,

Your - considered and thoughtful - posts are sounding more and more presidential with each passing day!

Keep up the good work:ok:

all very weel asking the AoA to make it official to not work G Days but then that will only hurt us.......................

If the AoA makes it official then that will be seen by the company as being Industrial Action (Contract Compliance) and gives them an excuse to do two things ...............

One: Roster minimum G days

Two: no further Negotiations until Industrial Action ceases

so we as indivduals must stop working G days till they decide to up the ante

Sydneyman....
You are pathetic!!! Can't you read?
Naming and shaming is not yet the name of the game.
It's down to individual choice.
You were clearly not here 7 years ago. Intimdation of OUR peers is repulsive in the extreme. If you want names posting, then put YOURS here now and start the process. Stop your cowardly hiding behind a cloak of anonimity and put your own neck on the line!
Out....