Hostile23,

Actually I think you are wrong. There is a very small proportion of people in all seats and positions that are difficult to fly with. Much the same as the previous major carrier I flew with. CX managements past errors (the 49'ers) will deservedly haunt them for years to come but I don't think they will ever do that again. As far as training goes its pretty good in general with a few poor trainers. Yes, the checks still seem to be partially run by a star chamber, I think it depends who's in the offices when your check report arrives, not very satisfactory.

I didn't respond before because you're entitled to your opinion although I disagree with it.:ok:

I tend to agree with BusyB.

Attitude is the key to success.

A respectful, helpful and supportive attitude will be reciprocated in 98.7% of cases.

AND I am talking about attitude from the left seat, right seat, back seat, bunk bed and cabin seat!

If you have a ongoing problem, please have an attitude check to make sure you are not one of the 1.3%!

.

What CX do you work for???

I think there is one thing that just about everyone can agree on, as it shows up in some form or the other in most posts, that the CX training department is horrible. To make a statement like that BusyB, takes away from your credibility.

As far as Easy goes...who knows if its better or worse. I bet H23 will enjoy his time there. At least he will get off the 3 month contract flying here at CX.

Im under no illusion that these problems are limited to CX only. All that matters is if you can put up with the bad your particular company dishes out. Best of luck to you H23.

iLuvPX,

"I think there is one thing that just about everyone can agree on,"

You may be refering to those on PPRuNe but I can assure you a lot of guys I fly with are quite happy with their trainer/training. As I said, you're welcome to your opinions, just don't start believing everyone has the same opinion!!:=

I doubt my knowledge on Easyjet is out of date, I was speaking to a some of their captains in LGW yesterday. I know quite a few of them very well indeed and many of them are looking at leaving even for F/O positions elsewhere.

Leave CX by all means but you wont be at Easy long before you're looking at heading of somewhere else.

And again.
 

It seems with alarming regularity we get into this rut. Someone says they hate CX and are leaving. Some people say they can't wait to join the exodus, others take the happy to stay view and we go around and around in circles until everyone thinks they have had the last word or gets bored beating thier heads against the others wall.
I shall try to put this as simply as I can.
If you are unhappy with CX leave, don't stay here take the cash and whinge about how unhappy you are. It is spineless and without credibility. Follow H23, if nothing else he is a man of conviction. Unhappy, leave, simple.

If you enjoy flying for CX- happy,stay,simple.

If you have good CX/HK days and bad CX/HK days (as most of us do) shovel the cash away and then when the bad days fill up the !!!!! bucket at least the money bucket will be at the same level. Then refer to either of the simple choices above.

On a last note H23 I would controvert your reason for the post. I have no problem with 90% of the LHS guys I fly with, but then I don't have the insecurity issues that you have demonstrated by starting this thread. I don't let other people decide how I should feel.

CMOT

Come to Netjets guys!
Nice company, nice people, nice atmosphere and quite a good new contract!:cool:

I know at least a dozen pilots at C.X. whom I see on a regular basis. They all agree on one thing. C.X. is run on fear and intimidation. Maybe some of you have been exposed to it for so long you don’t know the difference.

Sorry, Buzy B, but the lives of more then 49 family’s was ruined. Also the likes of me who respected the recruitment ban, only to be kicked in the bal1s later when all was forgiven.

When market forces change they will do it again, maybe they will just be more legal this time as the only regret they have was the bad P.R. Nothing else. Let’s not live in denial. Market forces will hopefully never change in their favour again to allow them to show their true colours.

Just the fact that this threat has been going for so long show there is a problem in C.X.. For the first time in 5 years I am starting to feel that me honouring the recruitment ban was destiny.

ByAirMail,

Nothing to be sorry about. I only answered this thread because Hos23 was saying everyone agrees with him.

Nothing can justify the '49ers. Those that respected the inept ban have also been penalised.

I know in excess of 1000 CX pilots so I think I have a better idea of the majorities feelings than you do. We are talking about current feelings not past ones. Everyone is p****d off that we haven't got a payrise yet but that doesn't make all the trainers/training useless.:)

Busy B
 

"I know over 1000 Cathay pilots.......................sorry but that is absolute tripe. Met a couple of hundred yes, have intimate knowledge of how they think and be able to comment on their behalf. Ah....NO. This is what I call CCC. (Classic Cathay cr@p). Sorry dude but you sound really dumb making these sought of statements.

Hos23,

You really are wetting yourself aren't you. Yes, I think that about 1000 is reasonable and they, like you, mostly speak their opinions.

Now go away and make your "SOUGHT" of statements somewhere else. You say no-one disagrees with you and when they do you get all aggressive. No wonder you have problems with the training!!:ugh:

Just the arrogant type of response I would expect.I'm not being aggressive, just drawing attention to the fact that you are full of sh!t when you say you "know" 1000 Cathay pilots. I was there for 6 years and probably only met 50-100 tops. Man you must really be a man about town.Thats a lot of hand shaking. Might I suggest your hand is sore from some other form of self indulgent social activity!

How would you know its arrogant, you don't seem to know anybody. Lets look at it. 14 yrs -400 (30 trips yr x 3 crew), 3yrs 777 (22days flying/month, lets say 15 different crew), then we have AEB, bars etc.:D

You really are a sad sack aren't you? Just feel only you can tell the truth. Dream on.:ugh:

You must have met me at some stage, as you seem to have met everyone at Cathay. What did you think of me? :E

You certainly weren't memorable!:}

Busy B, if anyone was questioning H23's rational for leaving...YOU just answered it.... :ugh:

Whatever you say, its your opinion!:ugh:

You think that little gem up all by yourself? :}

I've been here for 14 years and met one hell of a lot of Cx crew from the most junior S/O to the most senior Capt. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that most are pi**ed off with the management style ( roster/pay/conditions )of this company and not with the training dept. Sure a few are upset about being cat b'd etc but most ( and I really do mean most ) get over it and persist. Ok we have a silly star chamber that really should go but on the whole all check/trainers are not too bad. Remembering there are bad apples in every bunch.
Now as for CRM? yes it is very much alive and well in CX, some better than others I grant you but it's a lot better than 15 years ago or even 5.
Having said all that I accept there are people out there that just don't seem to "get" the Cx style, fair enough you had your try and moved on. Good luck to you but remember 600 Captains and 900 F/O's ( approximate figures of the top of my head, so don't shoot me! )somehow made it through upgrade, so it's very achievable for the vast majority that care to put in the work.

So could you please stop s**t canning Cx all the time, quite a few of us actually enjoy the job so get over the fact you don't/didn't fit in here and move on with your lives.

fair enough?

ok

23, I suffer from serious “Establishment Blues”, and yes I hope to be following you soon and do think there is a lot to improve at C.X.

I think you have made your point but now you’re getting insulting and respond to every post with aggression, by the way, where do you get the time??

I think your point was made, so can we please close this thread Mate.

A lot of people talk about leaving. Until you have actually done it, talk is cheap and is what Cathay does best. Blow hot air. Unfortunately they are not aware that their is a hole in the top of their baloon!

Of course everyone is happy in the cockpit. If it showed they were unhappy we would Cat B the F/O or S/O’s in question. You see, we have the control and that is what we are good at. Living in fear of being terminated is a great motivator.

As an F/O or S/O, would it be wise to put it on paper or tell someone you are not happy with a Trainer or Checker. Ask the pilots who disagreed with some of our C&T’s. They are now Cat B’d for 3 years for an attitude adjustment. Of course everyone is happy. Keeps the pilot’s inline. How many are those 3 year Cat B pilots complaining now.

Rule by intimidation and fear.

As for more terminations, it is coming. We will do it different this time to avoid the legal battle. It is very simple to target someone and roster a termination simulator. Our Flying Managers are only too happy to carry out this duty.

It is trouble-free to hire a Private Investigator as we have done in the past. The dividends that pay off when we terminate someone is enormous with regard to having a compliant workforce. Very simple to select someone who has had an argument with staff travel or over a housing issue, which in itself is cause for termination, so beware.

Conduct unbecoming is open to OUR interpretation.

Nothing is changing for the better. We will have you down to the contract that we want in the near future.

As for a pay rise, we are willing to give a pay rise based on 50 hours and an hourly rate above that threshold to the usual 84 hours. Overtime will be paid above 84 hours but on a reduced rate. It is coming. If you fly 50 hours you get the base rate. If you fly 60, you receive pay for 50 hours and 10 hours of our hourly rate, 70 hours, etc.

Keep smiling in the cockpit and keep your head down, if not, you will pay.

We have the best Check & Trainers in the industry at The Cathay Pacific Group. It is a very sought after position with very good pay and benefits which only attracts the best. Those that complain about the Checking and Training system are most likely the mediocre pilots that slipped through our system. If those pilots wish to leave, we are only too happy. We usually are able to convince some of these resignees to maintain their employment with The Cathay Pacific Group.

We have many applications and will be hiring 250 pilots this year in various positions and bases. Many lower time pilots are very keen to join The Cathay Pacific Group. So we lose some pilots but more join on lower conditions, we win. Our Training Staff are more than willing to train these new pilots.

We are not concerned if we lose pilots from all positions (Captains, F/O’s or S/O’s). It will not force us to increase your package as some may think (pilot forces). It’s only going to get worse for the pilot group, not better.

The Management

The first thing you realise when you fly in command is that all the ****S aren't in the LHS. Doesn't this thread prove it.:p

Don't stop him gents. He's on a roll...:ok:

23...haven't you left yet?:}

hostile 23
 

Pls check your PMs.
Tnx.
swish266

I'll start this with the old, "..watching for a while, new to post" quote. H23: you've made your point. I understand you don't like it here and therefore you're leaving. That's fine. Please do so, it's your right. You are going on a bit though. BusyB: I've read a lot of your posts. You are way above getting dragged into a scrap with H23. Remember in the battle of wits, he appears unarmed and quite emotional. It's not fair of you two to engage.
I've been here 10 years plus. I consider myself easy going and I really can't imagine I've upset any of my crew. As far as I'm concerned, all we're trying to do is take an airplane from A to B, safely and have a good time in the process. In my previous life that phase was called domestics. The meat was using the airplane to do a job (air to air etc).
However, I'm no happy camper either. I'm a bit entrenched with family commitments and am not as flexible as most. I've also not made a war chest of money in my time, so a move is not an easy decision. But, I find for the first time that I've started cruising other airline websites for employment information. I've let my previous licences expire so I hold only a HKATPL. I guess my question is: can I apply directly to carriers such as Korean/JAL etc without having to go through brokers (they appear to want a huge commission)? Are there any other airlines or Netjet equivalents who want a 40 year old, 12000 hour Skipper with Airbus, Classic, Herc and fighter time.
I feel this company isn't up to par with most any more and they won't change until a few us start to leave. Of course it would be nice if others did the leaving so that I can reap the benefit, but I think I'm due a change anyway. Sorry for the drivel; I'm sure I'll get the hang of posting. Just voicing my dissatisfaction without the whinging.
Ta!

Busdude,
I have been trolling options too of late, with a view to getting out.
It seems you have to go through a recruitment agency for all contract jobs.
These are links to some of the sites that offer info:
http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/index.htm
http://www.wynnwith.com/
http://japanpilots.19.forumer.com/
http://www.wasinc.net/employment.aspx
http://www.iac-global.com/vac.htm
http://gapaviation.com/home.html
http://www.contractair.net/public/index.html
http://www.directpersonnel.com/

Other one is Rishworth, though they seem to get a bad rap.

The highest paying package I have seen has been Korean which was something like USD13,000 and the "best" I have seen is ANA which offered a 10 day on, 20 day off contract for something like USD7,000

I believe the AOA is looking into starting our own placement agency.

Now we're really negotiating Nick.

Hostile23,

Mate keep going, dont be bothered by what other people think about your concistentsy - most of them prob. havnt got - just that. You've put of with !!!! for long - now its only fair that you take your time for a bit of ventilation - and its all so very true, what you say. The chicken !!!!s can duck there heads down from now on and till forever. You've taken a decision - to go for the greener grass - and you know what you came from. A lot of the ones that think you have proven you point have prob never ev been through another proper airline and are the ones who would be much better of keeping quiet. At least you know what you are talking about. Keep going. Its all good mate.

All the best.

That's because most of us who fit into CX don't spend as much time complaining about things on pprune. Every company will have people who can't fit in and they tends to be those who post negative thoughts on different forums. This is a fact of life that people love to complain, so there's really no point for us who disagree with you to try to change your thought or start a fight on pprune.

bus

Yup...it will be so much nicer at a LCC:E :} :confused:

Different !!!!!, same smell!:D

See ya!

ure sure the smell is the same in EUROPE as in Hong Kong?:oh:

hostile23,

at least it takes some courage and determination for your decision.
Many pilots complain but only few take consequences like you. Most keep on going the comfortable way of not changing anything. If there were more decisions like yours some bad developments in aviation mainly based upon abusing pilot’s passion for their job had not taken place, e.g. this ridiculous paying for type ratings, and enduring the deterioration of their working conditions in general.
Unfortunately, the best times in aviation are gone, and this decay in general applies for all aviation companies I have heard about. The pioneer times in aviation are history and today it is all about cost cutting and shareholder value.
In some European countries surveys have taken place about young people’s ambitions for their favourite job. For many years becoming a pilot was always amongst the top three for male teens. In the latest surveys it was not even in the top ten. Obviously the reputation of a pilot job is diminishing just as the working conditions.

Nevertheless, I really hope that you will be happy with your decision and meanwhile things haven’t worsened in your former company, too.

Good luck man!

Hello h23. Have sent you a PM. All the best.

Hostile23, or anyone else out there could anyone give me a run down on HK express is that any better or worse than CX??::suspect:

Just want to say thanks for all the PM's expressing support. I have had at least 20 so far including from wives of pilots. I really don't care what you pro Cathay types have to say, my priority is to convince others not to make the same mistake that I and many others have made by joining this abomination of an airline. After reading some of the PM's these b@stards really have got a lot to answer for. I've often thought the comment that "Cathay ruins lives" was going a bit far. After reading some of these messages I am now convinced. Cathay management is a disgrace, end of story.

hostile23
 

So, if you, as you have told us, are going back to your previous employer and it is all fixed up, why are you asking questions about Flybe?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274774

Has Easy sent you a 'No thanks'?;)

Ah, no they haven't. But I'm still looking at all options. I only wish I took more time and did better research 6 years ago! I wouldn't be here now working for this bunch of losers. I suggest you spend more time organising your own life. Oh and thanks for the link to my own thread numb nuts. Very useful.:confused: