Pravda and the other propoganda
 

Having read the latest from Companies rostering negotiating team I would like to bring up a few points for debate.

1. Working on their proposed figures, if on a short haul roster you fly an additional 10% ie 88 hours with the max of 80 before EFP, you make, via my and the proposal's calculations, only 10% more pay.

Considering we are never rostered that many hours due to ineffecient scheduling why would I work 20-30% harder for 10% more pay????

NB in the old contract 90 hours and you doubled your pay, B-scale you don't even have the base pay to start with!

2. The rate for 0-80 hours is very disapointing. Cabing crew are getting 69 HK$ per duty hour for day returns and TPE or MNL split duties! now factor that 14-16 duty day times the amount per hour and that is substantial coin, versus the 3 to 4 hours LDA pay I am going to get to go to TPE or MNL!

3. O day versus reserve. "why would you want more reserve rather than O days, On O days if we do not call you is a doy off" Yes but everytime I call 8929 and crew control switch my reserve duty or make me work on an O day it is not a DAY OFF! ( thus I can not make any plans for those days! If O days were open days where you could decline the offer to work that would be better! let someone who is at max hours get the money, I want to pick the kids up from school instead!)

No O days!, If they want them then give me the reserve, at a 1 for 1 pay out after the 28 days per year on the fair share rostering. at least you get pay or credit for the time.

NB The fair share reserve threats of getting based guys into HKG to sit reserve does not wash. Look at Table X, and the 5-4-3 rule. If the company keeps based pilots in HKG They just have to give them longer recovery periods back at home. THe best thing for Based piltos to due is TPE splits and DHL Freighter flights, and then get them home! it is productive and keeps the HKG pilots happy.

Anybody else have more opinions on the gaps in the proposal? Please read it carefully, support the AOA, they know what they are doing!

see you at the forum's next week!

Pravda goes straight in the green bin I'm afraid!

Haven't had the misfortune to see Pravda for a while; what's caused this thread? Don't suppose it's a revelation that the new Lears are going to be fitted with a fixed tricycle undercarriage though. Please tell. I can't believe that the company is seriously suggesting that our hourly work rate is worth less than the cabin crew............or are they?

Just wondering ....ref. based guys doing more reserve - would that be in addition to the current reserve already rostered in HKG and to the substantial amounts of reserve already rostered on a base before patterns (n.b. check pilots who make up a large majority of those on a base don't do reserve)??

Assuming an agreement is reached and that defensive rostering is not required - why the need for so much reserve in the future ??

For those of us who haven't been out to HKG the last few days, please explain what NR's latest proposal is. Cheers....

Interesting to note how the cabin crew won LDA in the first place. They just stopped doing turnarounds and split duties. Their rate of sickness for such flights was world record breaking stuff. Something to learn from this maybe!

The cabin crew got an LDA through a major form of industrial action! Rather than having crew not show up for TPE or MNL split duties and other day returns, the company had to give them an LDA. This was to make up for the YEN they would not be recieving by doing a full overnight.

The rate of LDA varies with rank in te CCA ranks and is based on Duty hours. The " proposal " is to offer an LDA to pilots based on flight hours in addition to the base salary to make up for some of the A scales 3rd pay cut, and to allow the b-scale to supplement there provident funds. The rate at which the company offer is less than what the cabin crew get.

The proposal is about 6 pages long, and written in a very resaonable manner.( good salesmanship) I am sure 411A would love to pick it apart and tell us all how reasonable it is and that any MAS pilot would take it, so I will not reprint the article here. It is in your box at work. Read it carefully, and then be green and put it in the recycle bin! Do not be fooled. Do not sign anything. The AOA has the situation under control. Give them you full support.

NO PLEASE don't put any of NPR's rubbish on here!
I haven't seen it but I'll bet my Pfund it's complete garbage.

Herb, betting your Pfund would not be a significant wager, if it's anything like mine!

Yeah, c'mon Herb, don't be so cheap, how about a six pack of beer instead?

Can I keep just one?
OK. I bet 5 beers (and a bowl of peanuts )NPR's latest offering is complete and utter GARBAGE.
Support The AOA

I'll see your five and I'll raise you five!

How dare NR try to circumvent our AOA reps and negotiate directly with us. Don't fall for the 'Mr Reasonable' rubbish. They're trying to bypass our UNITED concerns represented by our ELECTED AOA and appealing to us as individuals who are slightly p**sed off with this whole affair dragging on and on.
It's a pretty basic and well worn tactic of Union busting so don't fall for it.
Keep your deals Nick - you'll find out soon enough that we're far from bust.
The non-union creeps amongst us will help for as long as they can but after that.........

Cathay Pacific has had their last signature from me.
I urge ALL of you, not to sign this one or anything else coming out of that den of thieves at Cathay ****ty. Remember, if they want you to sign it, it's going to be NO GOOD FOR YOU! You don't even have to read the fine print!

I don't understand.
80hrs x 12months - ( 2hrs x 42Days L) - 20hrs Licence
=856hrs per year before EFP
This seems to be too much for me.
I may be too stupid to accept it.

Would seem that the guys at CX can't agree among themselves, let alone with the company. The companies policies are classic union-busting at its best, and will probably work. The glory days for crew are looooong past.

S.O.G. 698 posts and counting. What a loser. Get a life. (by the way, he seems to feel he has something important to say on nearly EVERY forum, particularly Rumours and News. Do a search and put in his user name....you will be amazed that this guy has as much time to type that he does!).

S.O.G.

S.O.G.

You know I could almost feel sorry for someone with such an empty life as 411.....almost!
S.O.G.

Nick
here is a suggestion for you to propose to the AOA in order to keep the talks moving forward.

We had a very simple overtime arrangement years ago, leave was 2.33 hrs credit per day DT & BT was at 1 for 1 sim was 1 for 4 (I think.) EFP kicked in at 70 hrs per month. It was simple to keep track of, expensive enough to keep Crew control honest and met all the requirements of the crews.

Well if it was good enough then what is wrong with it now? Overtime in the old days was a huge incentive to go to work, no difficulty finding crews ever! When are you people going to learn that money is a great motivator.

I must admit that your latest offering is well written, but management have told so many lies of late that I no longer believe anything that comes from the company side. It's a bit like the kid who cried wolf once too often , we all know what happened to him!!!!
So I intend to back the union on this issue, as one of the previous contributors stated you have coerced your last signature from me years ago.........

It is "real simple". It is all about fairness and providing an incentive to go to work. Let's face facts, the company is way short of pilots. They need us to work overtime.
Now..........the prime fact is that we won't do it for free. Way back when there were good A-scales and such, an occasional trip was justified. However, with todays lower rates no one wants to do one hour more that is required.
If the company would come up with a fair scheme to provide incentives, the pilot shortage would dry up overnight.
Unitl then......no one is going to answer the phone or work an extra day.

Nick ..here is another suggestion..

Go get F****D

Do I have a seconder?

[This message has been edited by Herb (edited 13 May 2001).]

I read NR et al's letter with interest. I believe it shows an element of insanity not to at least listen to the other viewpoint. Then I read the words "This is not the thin edge of the wedge" and I realised I was back in the same nightmare that was being played out in '95 and the news of ASL, which was in turn part of the recurring nightmare of the last eight years.

Nick, address your offers to the AOA, they have our overwhelming mandate and I trust them to do the debating on our behalf.

[This message has been edited by Midnight Rambler (edited 13 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Midnight Rambler (edited 13 May 2001).]

Whilst we may want to slag off in this forum - do not write anything to , submit anything to or even call NR & Co with your bright ideas. They are only trying to go over the AOA's head.

If they want to know what we think - they can ask our representatives.

Go and watch your Marty Levitt VCD.

Never mind the CD........ Let's see him live at the forum nights over the next week. Hey, 411A what about that then! Not willing or co-hesive enough........ bull ****!