Disaster at CX - 49 Fired
 

What a disaster! Below is the press release from Cathay Management:

09 July 2001 Print this press release

Speech on Move to Resolve Pilots' Pay Dispute by Tony Tyler
(16:30 HKT)


By Tony Tyler, Director Corporate Development


Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us here again today. We have some important announcements to make. Let me begin however by recapping briefly on how we reached the current situation in this industrial dispute with the pilots' union.
As you know, we are in the middle of a three-year signed agreement with the pilots' union. This agreement has only run for two years and there is still a year to run. Yet the union has seen fit to make demands for salary increases and provident fund improvements of up to 32%. Such demands are completely unjustified and out of touch with the realities of Hong Kong and the global economy.
We have tried months of negotiations but have been repeatedly rebuffed. Only recently, we made the union a very generous offer including pay rises, as well as improvements in benefits, overtime pay, and rostering. Sadly the union rejected this offer without even referring it to its members.
Regrettably, the AOA leadership chose, instead, to launch a campaign of industrial action that seeks to severely disrupt the airline and Hong Kong - a campaign aimed at maximising inconvenience and uncertainty for the public. In the AOA's words, their "prime strategy is to use guerrilla-style tactics".
This action has already seriously affected the airline, our passengers and the wider Hong Kong public. The AOA has said very publicly that it wants to escalate the action further and is prepared to prolong this agony. Again in the union President's own words, their "strategy is based on incrementally increasing the pressure". And they are prepared to "continue this way for three months, six months, nine months or a year".
Cathay Pacific simply cannot stand by and allow the AOA's selfish action to cause such damage. Nor is Hong Kong prepared to tolerate such disruptions by the AOA on what seems to be a repeated basis. Under the circumstances, we need to take prompt and firm action to resolve the situation for the good of all of our employees, our customers, our shareholders, the tourism industry and the whole of Hong Kong.
Therefore after extremely careful consideration, we have decided on two courses of action.
First we have determined that we will implement a new pay, benefits and rostering package for our pilots. From today, our pilots will benefit from an improved pay, benefits and rostering package.
This package includes pay rises of up to 9%, increased education, housing and maternity benefits, and improved rostering practices. The package will be introduced with immediate effect -- although elements of the overtime pay and rostering will, for administrative reasons, be phased in by November.
Regrettably, this package is not quite as generous as the proposal we made to the union leadership at the end of June. This is because, frankly, there is less money available as a result of the damage done to the company by the union's industrial action.
We believe most of our pilots want to work for the success of the company. This package will reward them for doing so. We were frustrated that the union leadership blocked our earlier proposal. Based on feedback from crews, we believe they will welcome the additional incentives and other improvements in the new package.
This brings me to our second announcement. Sadly, we have also taken the very painful decision to terminate the employment of 49 of our pilots. This is in addition to the three cases previously announced.
Thus, today we have issued letters of termination to these pilots. In accordance with their Conditions of Service and the Employment Ordinance the pilots will all receive three months wages in lieu of notice. Those affected include 23 Captains and 26 First Officers. The average years of service of these officers are 8 years, ranging from 18 months to 22 years.
We have taken this very serious step only after extremely careful consideration. We have undertaken a detailed review of the employment history of all our pilots and identified those who, we feel, cannot be relied upon to act in the best interests of the company in the future. We have, essentially, lost confidence in those employees who have been terminated and decided that their continued employment with the company is no longer in the best interests of the company as a whole.
Clearly, all our other staff will be very concerned about today's decision to terminate some pilots' employment. However -- and this is very important - I can give an assurance that we will not be laying-off any cabin crew or ground staff as a result of this action.
This situation is, I am sorry to say, one of those where we, our staff, our passengers and our customers, must regrettably endure some short-term pain for the long-term benefit of the company.
Hong Kong is tired of being held to ransom. The time has come for prompt and resolute action. That is what we have done. We must now move on and apply our efforts to the important task of resolving this issue so we can rebuild the airline's reputation and restore public confidence.
We sincerely apologise to the Hong Kong community for the inconvenience and stress that the AOA's industrial action has caused. We thank everyone in Hong Kong for their patience and continued support -- something we know we can never take for granted.
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We would now be happy to take your questions.

52/1500 or 3.5% of the pilots at CX have now been terminated. This is a serious escalation of hostilities...from 3 on July 5 to 49 today. What will round 3 bring?
Good luck to the remaining pilots.

The 52 pilots sacked is equivalent to the number of crew required for 5 aircraft, working on 5 crew per aircraft, (which is pretty much the industry norm for long haul/regional ops.)

Expect another "purging" before long, to show the troops that THIS management is "committed". The real reason however, is to reconcile the cost and number of leased aircraft, and the realization that management's actions have caused a downturn in traffic which will take many months to recover. A gamble that MIGHT pay off in times of pilot over-supply, when the vacancies left by those terminated are quickly filled, however in today's climate, Turnbull, Tyler & Co have not taken into account the numbers that will leave voluntarily due to the "p!ssed off" factor.


For management to make their OFFER, of the new conditions, at such an early stage in this dispute indicates that they are reaching desperation point!

Tell 'em to stick it up their jumper - sideways - gents. There may be a few more desperation moves, and threats coming the pilots' way, but it's obvious that this management is headed for the scrap heap post haste.
Keep the blowtorch applied by staying focused on the conditions you NEED to obtain, to make your's and your families' lives tolerable.

[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]

I'm with Kaptin M. You guys have to tough it out. It looks like management are getting desparate, but dirty. When will airline management realise that pissed off pilots cost more than happy ones.

And if Hong Kong is concerned at all about its "world image" then Tung Chihuahua had better consider doing an abrupt about-face on his previous stance. Unless he really wants to tell the international business community that this is the way we do business in the "new" Hong Kong.

An hmm, what about Beijing's Olympic bid ...?

My unconditional support to the affected pilots. Hang in there, fellas.

Amongst various tactics the bullies at H/O will now be evaluating, the next stage I suggest will be a little "gift" in the mail from CX.

This new deal will have further "improved" conditions and an expiry date.

All most of us outsiders can say is beware Airline Managers bearing gifts. You guys have previously been forced to sign new contracts under duress and look what that resulted in.

As a casual observer all I would ever suggest is don't sign anything and keep doing what you are doing. Don't resign, don't go on strike just do your job safely.

The intended intimidatory pressure they are applying to you with these sackings is further reason for you to be doubly sure of safety when at work. If you miss a Notam or inadvertantly skip a cockpit item (gear pins removed?) then you are easy pickings for them. Take your time and keep doing exactly what you have been doing so far.

Incidentally, all you are doing is what you are contracted to do - what more could any employer require. If this has thrown Cathay into such chaos isn't that perfect proof of undermanning on their part.

Keep it up folks - may the force be with you.

...and at the end of another night the words of Dire Straits help put many things into perspective...

"These mist covered mountains, are a home now for me....

Through these fields of destruction,
Baptisms of Fire
I've watched all your suff'ring
As the battles raged higher
And though they hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not dessert me,
My Brothers in arms.

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell....every man has to die!

But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms."

Dire Straits - "Brothers in Arms"

I am not CX, but with a major.
Dear CX Pilots, keep it up and dont bend in. I know of two friends of mine, who decided not to take an offer by cx after the sacking. They said they are afraid and unsure what can happen to them if the chinese dont honor contracts!! This sacking will backfire, because many guys looking will refrain from applying to a company that simply fires guys and dishonors written contracts. I hope we all will stand united against a management like that and do everything to show them our disrespect. CX managment will travel at times and I sure hope they will cross my line. In my company I have all the rights in the cockpit and as sure as hell I will use them against those pricks.
CX lost credibility with this move amongst all possible pilots interested in this formerly good company. It is a shame that the egos of mgmnt guys, getting proftit share, bonus pay, contract completion pay etc.. even when they **** up everything, ruin such a safe and good airline. Why do other companies hire such mngrs with a background of chaos? If my company would hire anybody of them I will work to rule without a notice of the union, and many with me. A point to consider.
Keep it up gentlemen, if I hear a cx callsing with not cx plane accompaning it, I will do my best to hinder it.

cws - you bring up some good points, but don't take it out on/"hinder" the non CX callsigns/drivers just doing their job, as condoned by the AOA. Also CX is essentially a UK co. I reckon if it were chinese management it would be better than the mess that currently exists.... honest!

This is a very serious issue. In other countries you could take the company to court for unfair dismissal, but not in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong anyone can be dismissed for no reason as long as that person is given their written notice and any allowances they are due. If the reason is an unfair one they just do not declare a reason.

It is important that CX pilots either have a proper stirke or back off completely. Pussy footing around will only play in to managements hands as they can cherrypick their sackings, as they have in fact just done.

Thanks for all your support! It's a rather dismal time, but everyone has their chin up. We're not giving up, and your words of encouragement are worth millions.
Flap 5, as much as I would love to, striking is not an option in HK.

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: HardRock ]

Yeh as other posters have mentioned I think you can expect some very very heavey backstabbing and underhanded behind-the-scenes sh!t from management. There is asolutely no doubt they have alreadey imported a la Lorenzo shrinks to plan long term psychological warfare techniques. PLEASE stay on top of it and dont be manouvered into a blind alley by Tyler & Co.

As Sun Tzu once said the longer an enemy can maintain a war, the opposing troops will eventualy feel they are flogging a dead horse and be defeated in time. Dont let that happen.

Good luck guys.

Wish to be,

Thanks for sending in that press release. Anyone reading that release who is not familiar with the actual situation (ie the vast majority of the fare paying public) would probably draw the conclusion that CX management is entirely justified in its actions, and that the AOA is being unreasonable.

I feel that the AOA would greatly further its cause by issuing a similar press release NOW making it clear to the general public what the facts of this dispute are. Remaining silent at this point would be their biggest mistake.

As someone famous once said: "The first casuality of war is the truth".

Good luck guys.

In a "Simpsons'" episode Hong Kong was referred to as Pirate Island. Can there be any doubt as to its appropriateness?
Harrr.

I concur with Capt. Sand Dune.

Chris, Nigel, get someone that speaks Chinese to present the facts at the press conferences. What you read on the SCMP is one thing and what the local Hong Kongers read on the Chinese newspaper is another thing! Do you have any clue about what the Chinese newspaper are reporting?

I am afraid AOA is loosing the PR war, again, and this time is because there is a lack of communication to the public in their local language.

You pilots have an issue with your employer and I could care less about how much you ask for what you ask for and so on.

Your actions though are causing grief to the travelling public like myself who has been a loyal traveller with CX for 15 years.

I find now that I am having to miss my schedules because your actions have spilled over to me the innocent party.

There is absolutely no way you will gain the support of those who are adversly effected by what you fella's are doing.

All the communication in 10 different language will not help you because frankly I don't care enough about your wealth or your health, I pay for the expensive Business class and sometimes First class tickets, you want me the travelling public to feel sorry for you?

Not likely! I feel sorry for those who have and may lose their jobs as a result of this dispute

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Diamond MPO Member ]

DIAMOND MPO MEMBER

Perhaps you should aim your wrath at the real guilty party, namely CX management! But I suppose you come from the same school of incompetent losers!

Wind up!!!

Is it any wonder you have lost public support and are losing the PR battle so comprehensively.

I made some very fair comments and though it is to your dislike there is no need for the insult.

Well thank you, I not only support your companies actions but hope that a few more trouble making pilots with your attitude get the boot.

Maybe when you are sitting in the lounge room contemplating your actins some time from now, you will see how foolish you have been. The only problem is the lounge room will be in another country with the jobs section sitting on your lap.

The two of you can send me your resume as I will be hiring a driver in future and you may qualify with your limited experience and perpensity for going slow-that will suit me fine since there is so much traffic here.

The same 'incompetent losers' that have overseen the growth of an airline from an insignificant regional carrier to a world
class airline? Arguably (apart from HSBC) the only internationally recognised brand eminating from Hong Kong.
The same 'incompetent losers' that have
produced virtually unbroken profits year after year,enabling investment in new aircraft and products? Profit margins the envy of 99.9% of the world airlines.

This insults many who have worked all their lives to make the airline successful, I include pilots of course.

As a group, aircrew are clearly extremely unhappy. The current dispute saddens most of us within the airline and we wish it to end as soon as possible to enable us to get on and battle SIA and the rest, rather than each other. I personally still believe that the majority of aircrew simply wanted roster stability and improvements in certain B scale benfits. Things have escalated and two good friends are now out of work.

I have posted previously, stating shareholder resolve (UK and the mainland) is much stronger than the AOA can imagine. This is still the case (rightly or wrongly) and
you need to pick up the phone, withdraw the limited action and get round a table.
Please.

Diamond MPO Member, it is impossible to avoid inconvenience to the travelling public during an airline dispute. Let's hope it ends soon.

Diamond MPO:

it is understandable that you feel this way, of course ( I'm not a CX pilot, BTW ) but I am sure you would not travel CX if you thought the crews were unfit for duty or rushed into the flight by last minute destination changes.

This is what has beeen going on.

Incredibly, the crews have put up with it for ages, now their frustration is being vented. It's not aimed at you - indeed you're the last person they wish to get under the skin of.

It would be only fair of you, and would show incredible enlightenment, if you post a similar message to CX management in the HKG press. Fair's fair, eh? Believe me, CX senior managers don't really care about you right now - but they should. This is all about egos, and the inability of companies doing business in Asia to be seen to be giving in to staff in any way. Face is critical. I spoke to the current CEO of CX over a decade ago, and he said then if he made it to the top, the pilots were his #1 target. It's personal with him. You're in the crossfire.

Now you know the truth.

Diamond MPO

The inconvenience you feel is probably the way the rest of HK pax feels. However, just because you are inconvenienced does not mean that the pilots are wrong. Pilots, just like yourself, are employees of a company. When their working conditions deteriorate, they should have a right to discuss it with their employer. Unfortunately, we're just in the crossfire.

How would you feel if you went to work on Monday, expecting to be home right after work, and suddenly being told of an immediate business trip and be gone for the rest of the week. And when you return on Friday, expecting 2 days off, when all of a sudden, you're told you'll have to leave again on Sunday. Not much of a life, eh?

I'm not a pilot (yet), but I would hope for some sort of stability and plan out my family life. It's unfortunate that we are all inconvenienced by this dispute but we can all hope that a resolution can be made soon. Don't just look at the picture from one side.

Regards,

Dear Diamond MPO Member,

I am a CX pilot and proud to be one, particularly at the present moment. What I am not proud of is the position I have been forced to take by an intransigent, prevaricating, incompetent management. I am not proud of the fact that you and the rest of the loyal CX travelling public have been inconvenienced and for that I reiterate the unequivocal apology published by the AOA, our union. However, I cannot sit back and let the misconception prevail that the disruptions are caused by pilot action. The limited industrial action in and of itself is called Maximum Safety Strategy and involves absolute adherence to the procedures laid down by the manuals provided by Cathay Pacific. You might argue that this is designed to affect the ontime performance of the company. Perhaps, but it is not intended to cancel flights. The management have elected to capitalise on the typhoon and blame the consequent disruption on the pilots. They have betrayed their commitment to their own passenger's safety by using the services of airlines whose standards are arguably inferior. They have grounded a large portion of their own fleet unecessarily to promote the perception that the pilots are all going sick and cannot be relied upon to perform the task. I myself have been on reserve for four days and have had not one call.

The AOA, on the other hand has asked the worldwide body of pilot unions, IFALPA, to instruct its members to assist Cathay Pacific Airways, if so requested, in providing services to move their passengers. Hardly the actions of a body bent on causing maximum disruption.

In conclusion, I'd like to offer a personal apolgy for the less than polite responses you have recieved on this forum and hope we can sort this unhappy situation out in the minimum time.

I have to agree 100% with Midnight Rambler.

I too will appologise for the rude and offensive posts this forum is producing. - Please let it be known that the majority of these posts are not from CX pilots.

For those that are just on this forum for the ride...................please go ride somewhere else!

null

I have read with interest the messages posted in this forum. I too am a Diamond MPO member and have been a MPO member since 1980. Firstly I suggest should take a look at what the frequent flyers are saying since it is the fares paid by the sharp end seats that keep airlines like CX in business and your salaries (and management’s) paid. From there (Flyertalk Miles) http://www.flyertalk.com/milesfr.shtml
and under the CX section you will see what has been discussed since this action commenced. It shows there is overall sympathy with the pilots over the rostering situation but that is where it stops. Dare I say that I think your Union has let you down in this struggle by not having a negotiator of the same capability as the management side ? You should have brought in a pro negotiator with an unblinkered view of the whole situation to negotiate (that means give and take) the best deal and refer it to your members for a democratic vote. If the majority then wanted to go ahead and shoot itself in the foot then so be it. Putting it simply, the CX management has as much chance of flying a jet as you have at beating them at their own profession with your current armoury. The way it has come across is that you are in the 2nd year of a 3 year package agreement; the management made a generous (in my opinion – I run my own company, pay my own rent, school fees, medical etc and do not get 10% airfares and company provident fund) offer which was rejected by the Union negotiators without reference to your members for a vote. The package was then withdrawn. The HKAOA then commenced its annoying action. CX chartered planes and crews and as such had to use them since it was paying dearly for them anyway. The fact that this kept possible ‘slow-mode’ call it enhanced safety or whatever you like pilots sitting at home on call is irrelevant since they kept the majority of their schedules going – meanwhile giving the pilots time to get over their ‘sickness’ at home. All you are doing now is pissing off long term CX fliers like me and exhausting what little sympathy remains. Many of you would have come from other airlines like BA, Qantas or Canadian. Do we presume that because you were pilots at those airlines before then those airlines were the best because of your presence there ? Also you must consider whether the current cost cuttings and savings, etc are a decision made by the CX CEO or whether he has been directed to do so by his boss in UK ? It is my opinion that by continuing this annoying action you will see more colleagues fired and their careers effectively finished. CX will have no problem replacing your positions. You need to get in a professional negotiator with an unbiased view of the current situation and get back to the table with the management.

Articulately put MR.

We may not have a deep warchest of money however we can be quietly confident of holding the moral high ground.

When I heard the comment on CNN by TT of 'If you want the hours then look at the pilot's logbooks' I saw the cracks appearing in the management strategy. They must have been cringeing in Swire House over that gaffe.

Keep calm, maintain dignity, be courteous (and helpful where possible) to our cabin crew/ground crew colleagues and keep up the spirits of those most vulnerable aircrew members.

Best regds

MI

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Mark Itforsus ]

Avman, you are not in CX so but out unless prepared to make constructive comments...your last does not fit this bill and any further could does not help the pliots case for resolution.

Good way to garner support there avman....who are the losers? we'll see

I am not a CX pilot nor did I pretend to be. My profile quite clearly states my professional background. I am entitled to an opinion in response to Diamond MPO Member's comments. We in ATC today face the same sort of frustrations associated with safety. The majority of our senior management have no ATC background. The only thing they understand is cost cutting by reducing staff under the guise of "cost efficiency". This is now taking precedence over SAFETY. My contention is that Diamond MPO Member doesn't like to be inconvenienced, but if he wasn't, would he take the time and effort to support a cause which is in the interest of his SAFETY? Of course pilots and air traffic controllers don't take any pride in taking industrial action and inconveniencing the travelling public. Of course you (the passengers) are our bread and butter. But you do want to get to your destination safely don't you? The intransigence of senior management in some companies/organizations is difficult to perceive by those not subjected to it. I get a dose of it every time I go to work and I'm pretty certain that passengers such as Diamond MPO Member won't care a hoot until that is we bring it to their attention by inconveniencing them a little. Of course they may wish to wait until they are a pile of ash in the smouldering wreckage of what was once an aeroplane.......which may be a more permanent inconvenience!

OK I've had my say even though I have only scratched the surface of a very complex issue affecting the aviation world. I'll butt out as requested.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Avman ]

Hong Kong truly is a special place. One of the best things about Hong Kong is the fact that it is one of the freest places on earth to conduct business.

The freedom that all Hong Kong citizens have does carry a special burden. That burden is being felt in the current Cathay / Pilots Union dispute. This dispute is perfectly legal and within their right both as a Company and as a Union. Both parties in this dispute feel completely justified in their positions. No amount of discussion on this forum will change that. It is a shame that as a sideline to the dispute that other parties also are feeling pressured. These include other Cathay employees, travel and tourism employees and business owners and others.

No one can solely blame one party in this dispute for creating it. It has been simmering for years and involves complicated issues that should have been successfully negotiated and resolved years ago. It definitely points to a management failure, as Cathay management could have resolved these issues if they had been smarter. But, there are too many left over colonial attitudes and egos involved. Having said that, it is also evident that the pilot group could have taken other approaches that might have avoided the current situation.

But opportunities for early settlement were lost and the course has been set. This dispute will continue and not be easily resolved. If the citizens of Hong Kong want to end their suffering, there is only one remedy. Encourage Cathay Pacific to resume negotiations and reach a settlement in this dispute. Until that is done, you will continue to witness both sides exercise the precious freedoms to fight for their cause.

Take sides if you want……….that is your right also. I know I have.

The message is clear from many of the comments here...the HKAOA has dropped the ball big time, in the PR department.
Hardly surprising, considering their perceived notion of self importance. :rolleyes:

So the spray from the big "fountain" in the hills getting to your brain? Only 10 more posts till you explode or melt down...yes? Take a drive to Falcon and have some chicken strips at the Roost. Breathe deeply, think happy thoughts and try to love the folks that made it. Don't be so bitter. There is more to life than hating the people around you...

REEEELLLAAAAXXXXX

You're so right there Mr Kubota, so you and your friends should read, or choose to disregard 411-a's posts, not attack his person when he posts his views...I've seen more venemous, personal attacks from the likes of you and your "union brothers" than we have from 411-a...so take your own medicine mate....

It is a terrible thing to happen to a great company like CX to have to show such utter incompetance in handling a conflictual situation involving the ONLY non-expendable employees in an airline:cockpit crews.All these latest developments are taking place in an international context which certainly is not favorable to a tough stance by any airline management anywhere in the world.In Europe & the US, Pilot trade unions have demanded & obtained huge improvements in pay & working conditions, benefiting from a sustained growth in the industry & a forseeable shortage of cockpit crews for major airlines. I have had the chance lately to discuss these matters rather extensively with friends who are in CX management;sadly, what it boils down to is that the head of CX is totally incapable of anticipating its own cockpit crews' reactions to any form of productivity improvement. The latest measures taken seem to be just one more poke in one direction, just to test reactions. If reactions are not up to expectations, it will be assumed by people taking those new measures that they are on the right track to achieve their goals, & further similar decisions will be taken, to the detriment of the same categories of personnel. Involving cockpit crews in strategic decisions concerning the future of the company would be another direction to be explored and this can only happen if all pilots in CX show enough solidarity to force CX management to back down on the latest measures. One thing that never be forgotten is that you call the shots if & only if you are holding the high ground and that is exactly the CX pilots' porsition just now. What is left to do, to my mind, is to convince CX deciders that this is the case. It will be very difficult, if at all possible, to recruit large numbers of pilots to replace the ones being laid off within a reasonable span of time & the more publicity we can give to the rest of the profession concerning the despicable attitude of CX management in the last 2 months the harder recruiting will be. Hang in there, boys.

I'd just like to say that the crews that I have had to work with recently have been courteous and polite and have not taken it over to the ground staff, thanks for that guys.
Jetfrog have to disagree that the Flt Deck are the only non expendable employees in an airline, no doubt they are important/essential but so are others see the following for another debate on this (although kaptain m has gone very quiet) http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...7&t=001804&p=6

It is always fortunate when one is so lucky to be given such insight by another with limitless Intellect.

In this case Avman, you have truly outdone yourself, your words so articulate have put me in my place and I am enlightened for the better. Thank you for your considerate and well thought out advice, you have won me over 100% and am now an ardent supporter of the pilots cause. Why? Because of you Avman, a true legend in your own mind.

Back to the lesser beings who stand at the feet of Avman and the bulging shadow cast by his ego, as well as those who apologised for Avman's earlier comments, thank you, as I said HONESTLY, I am not concerned with who get's what though I do hope this is resolved at the earliest possible time and with the least possible disturbance.

Best of luck.