CX Friday Telex
 

This is an excerpt from last Fridays telex to staff (27th April);

"Talks between the company and the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers' Association have been going on for some time with the aim of concluding a new roster practices agreement. Unfortunately these talks have reached another hurdle. The HKAOA is insisting on the removal of a Captain's discretion to extend a flight duty period on ultra-longhaul flights - something to which the company is unable to agree. This has meant we are now unable to reach an agreement before the deadline of the interim agreement of 30 April. We remain ready and willing to discuss this matter further with the HKAOA. In the meantime we will continue to roster to the spirit of the interim agreement."

This telex was signed by "Robert Cutler".


So there you have it from a director; don't fix the problem, just lie to staff that you are doing your best and it's the pilots fault. If it weren't so sad it would be laughable (as usual).

I'm very interested in his last sentence about continuing rostering "to the spirit of the interim agreement". I take it that that means they will continue their current rostering practices regardless of what was agreed in front of the HK Labour Tribunal. The arrogance of our managers / directors continues to astound me!

I think the outcome, Mr Cutler, will be quite different to what you and your sycophant cronies believe. Roll on the next EGM.

[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 28 April 2001).]

Just to play devil's advocate here for a moment, Was this extension thing always on the table or has it been introduced recently?
I for one would be happy to leave it to the commanders discretion, with a clause that his decision is FINAL AND CANNOT EVER BE QUESTIONED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES !! Let's get real sometimes it's better to extend an hour or so than have to nightstop or take min rest. If any of the crew are tired there is no extension . Period!! It has worked reasonably well for the last few years.
However if the Company is using this to blame us for not concluding an agreement, then they deserve everything that is coming their way

When is Labour Day?

Conan,
I must admit I am a bit puzzled myself. I think cutler may have got it wrong.
At the moment the company can't ask and you don't have to extend. I can't see why this should change. There must be more to this and I wait for the AOA to inform .

While we are on the subject have a look at the SQ thread on the general forum regarding ULH crewing. It appears their Captains have to sit in the seat for the entire flight!



[This message has been edited by Herb (edited 29 April 2001).]

So being able to ask for discretion is the deal breaker?

So Mr. C. reckons that there is agreement on threshold, rate, credits, etc etc (the stuff that costs money), but the AOA is killing deal over CMDR's Discretion - Yeah right.

Smokescreen as usual - discretion has nothing to do with it.

well that's why I asked. Have the company just picked up on this as their means of getting out of the deal, or was it introduced at the last minute by the AOA.
Alternatively it may well have been in the negotiations all the time but the company never saw it. Now when they realise that a deal will not be forthcoming by the end of this month, they are grasping at straws, and once again putting the blame for the failure of the negotiations on the AOA. ( of course that is where it rightly belongs. Everything that has gone wrong in the last few years can be blamed on the crews> Non of it belongs to management!!!! EVER is that understood)

Knowing the AOA, they will have their position well documented for production to the labour department. Roll on fair share reserve, it's going to cause a lot more flight cancellations than they have suffered up to now. I might even get some time off next month, either due to cancellations or because I won't be feeling very well.

Just for everyone's info the company CAN ask the captain to enter a discretionary extension but the capt. has the ultimate say with no repercussions implied or applied....yeah right...no pressure at all.

Hello.....operator, can we please have the number of the Air Line Pilots Association in Washington DC? Hello, operator.....hello?
Never mind the operator....try 202-797-4010, dial 1 for the USA.

It has been sugested that no-one reply to you 411A because you are obviously a frustrated pilot with too much free time and too little knowledge about what you reply to.

However on this occasion you are probably correct. I take it you are recommending we utilise the resources of our stronger colleagues in the union business. Well guess what, we do. Our HKAOA is actively involved in the international arena of pilot union activity and while your advice for once is welcomed it's several years late.

Just because we don't live in the USA does not mean we aren't up with the play regarding negotiation methods. Our only problem is who we are (not) negotiating with. It's time for us as a group to get our big stick out and cost this lot some money. It's the only thing they understand.

Thanks for the advice, now go away and let us get on with our lives in peace and without your intrusion.

[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 30 April 2001).]

i may be wrong but the deal i heard was that the company was not trying to do anything with discretion, but rather to extend the max duty period to 20 hours (for the direct NYC service). and they needed the AOA approval to take it to the CAD

Hero< That sounds much more like it and if you are right then there is a simple solution cash incentives.
I believe that BA does it for the LHR HKG route and all other long haul sectors. It would be flown by volunteers only but there would be a large cash incentive for the crews to fly for that long. I believe BA pays £1000 to a captain for the round trip so lets start the bidding at HK$20000 per round trip to NYC for a Capt lesser amounts for the other crews. No I'm not trying to get at anyone because of rank . It's based on salary scales.
They need the extra flight time and I see no reason that we should give it to them for nothing
Seems to me that the birds are coming home to roost.

Thrust as for 411 he only has 641 posts versus your measly 240 odd . Don't bother replying to him. If he has that much time to post he is obviously an unemployed wanabee

BlunderBus.
Sorry but you cannot be asked to go into discretion under the interim rostering agreement. appD9.
I can quote it for you if you want.

Quite correct Conan. By the way my post counter was reset about a year or so back. I used to have 400+ before the problem with the server made me start again! At least my posts are concentrated in one forum (that I have some knowledge, however small, about). A Sad OLD Git isn't he.

By the way SOG ref another thread.... we have had local pilots in the CX system for more than 12 years. Your definition of "recent" could do with a rethink. How time flies as we get older!

Continental does Newark-HK 15:40 block to block. Why does CX need a 20 hour duty day?

cheaper route ?!

Slower airplane (A340).

CO NEW-HKG average flight time to date is 15:55 with the longest airborne being 17:17.

Being flown only by C&T or management at the moment since the occurrences over 16:00 are too great for the scheduled time. I understand that the FAA will be taking a very active interest in this issue at the end of the 3 month operating waiver.

Compo