Don’t know which fleet you were on but I never had any problem on the flight deck, quite pleasant actually. Loved to flight with the based guys which was a loss but atmosphere is still decent, even the ex 777 are nice ! They own the place ! Pilots are not the problem.
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !

How long have you been with EK? Have you actually got your 42 days annual leave in 1 year? Rosters can change in a flash. Don’t count on always only doing 70 to 75 hours a month.

I never had an issue on the FD either, but the endless (justified) toxicity created a far worse environment than it should/could have been.

first civvy job? That says it all really. No disrespect to him, but you don’t know what you don’t know.

SOPS, I got all of the leave I requested. Kept some back for live leave. I won’t bank on anything, after banking on not getting a 40% pay cut and many other benefits taken away.

FO's do indeed have 70-75hrs a month, and it's a cushy lifestyle. Captains are working hard at 100hrs and that makes a huge impact throughout your experience of EK and Dubai. Every FO is happy, every Capt is tired and moaning about rosters/leave. That explains the differing reports you may hear.

100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.

There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).

As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.

True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.

I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.

In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.

Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.

Genuine question and no personal attack or attempt to insult anyone.

You have 3 days off, what do you do?

Like today until Saturday. 40 degrees outside.

I'd suggest one would do much the same as one would in HK when it's 30°C, 95% humidity and pissing pick handles: go shopping, see a movie, eat out at a restaurant, visit the local pub, or just stay home!

And remember to slip, slop, slap, seek and slide!

For the uninitiated:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ce2b38b04.jpeg

You have no more weather constraints than you do in HK. In fact fewer because there’s so much indoors.

My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.

loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..

Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.

Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.

YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.

Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.

Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.

Yeah, you keep asking this. It's an obvious answer; Whatever you want. The city infrastructure is built for the heat. AC, valet parking, door to door, delivery for anything at a touch of a button.

The pools/clubs are packed despite the 40 degrees. It's cool enough to run/cycle in the mornings, and desert safaris are still fine in the evening. There's a ton of indoor sport options. Use the staff travel for a getaway. Meet up with friends. Training/Gym. Work on a side-business. Chase girls. Play music. Read. Study. Theme parks. Hang with your kids. Skiing and snow park if you miss the cold. And yes, the shopping mall with all the usual activities. Just to name a few things.

What is it exactly you imagine the heat prevents you from doing? Life doesn't stop because you can't go for a walk in the midday sun.

Library?
Now I know for certain this is a wind-up.

I imagine he keeps asking because HK summers are such lovely times to be outside in a lovely, friendly, happy city.

Given the garbage you trot out, I suspect it’s a fairly novel idea to you.

Are you at the library now, spending your valuable free time arguing online about the place you left and so much despise?
Dubai sounds like a blast.

You’re clever, you are..

Enjoy COS18.

'I like chocolate flavor ice-cream!'

'Chocolate is lame! Vanilla better"

"No! how dare you!"

Meanwhile the ice-cream vendors smile.

What's the latest regarding housing? Rumour has it no more cash / own mortgage scheme?
Looks like the market is still going up in Dubai, interesting if you consider interest rate north of 5% now.. Kudos to those who buy into such a market, bold move..I am probably biased, but my money ( literally) is on the HK market. Too much lopen space ready to be built onto in Dubai for my liking, plus Saudia and India copying the business model.. In 10-20 years you might see 50 degrees in that region.. Then again, less risk regarding China/Taiwan compared to here and could be a permanent tax haven.. Time will tell I guess.

I've lived and worked in both places and am currently in neither. COS18...never heard of him.
You should learn to stop whinging, log off from this platform and go enjoy the lifestyle you desperately feel the need to advertise here (and for free).

…said without a hint of irony

Speak for yourself. Many colleague f/o' s are not happy at all but there is no alternative. Going back to their home country with their fam isn't an option.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.

So by your own admission you wouldn't be happy being a pilot anywhere except US legacy. Change career or start a business if you think you are entitled to more in life. Apply for the green card lottery and head to the US. Go get it, king!

You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?

Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.

Thank you for your advice. Although very simplistic.
Happiness is not a binary thing. It is very subjective. So you are happy with your driver, maid and nannies, who are afraid of you. Did you ever talk to them on a personal humane level? I like to raise our kids myself. How much money do you need to be happy? The fact that you can be fired in an eyeblink does not make me happy and you? That you as an employee have zero rights does not make me happier, how about you?

For me happiness involves spending time with my family, being able to plan time with them, having some control of my life outside of work. What good is being able to travel in Business/ First when you don't have off days? And are tired.

​​​​​​It is all relative. If you lose your job, Emirates is walhalla. But there must have been a reason why one didn't want to come and be here sooner. Good luck with your maids, nannies and money, you can always use luck.
At least in Dubai you can pretend to be something.


​​​​

This is utter BS, an equivalent apartment for what you get in DXB even for an F/O in HKG would be at least $80K, figure $120-140 for an equivalent villa in HKG. There are plenty of guys putting a ton of money into accommodation costs to have a normal life, now that the housing allowance has been cut by 70%. Take that out of your pay-packet and there's no way it's a paycut to join EK from CN3. It's local conditions in CX now, so it will never again compare to an expat gig anywhere.
On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.

You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?

This. I don't need to depart the frying pan inbound the fire.

Ok, I apologise. So, much like a Villa at EK, you're also in a 2500 sqft sized place but in Hkg which even in todays market is $10-12m USD. And you own it. Awesome. Or more likely you're in 800 sq ft, 1100 sqft gross under the messed up "I own some of the elevator and the janitor's ****ter" measuring that only occurs in HKG. And you think that's massive, no Airbus wide body skipper anywhere in the world lives in bigger than 800 sq ft is what you're thinking, so you're king of the world.
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.

All your conclusions are wrong, not sure how else to put it so you are willing to accept the truth. You seem incapable to see the world through a different viewpoint.

On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.

For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.

Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.

Forget it, Klinger. It's impossible to point out individual differences in here, beyond the level of comprehension if these guys. And don't even try to point out financial losses/ promotion/ block hours etc. You will always be the guy who blindly defends Cathay, full of Stockholm etc. Hopeless.

A polite and reasoned response Corporal. Kudos.

I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.

Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.

As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.

Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.

Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.

Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.

Peace...

The avid supporters are back! How quickly you guys forget what we went through with covid.

-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.

- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.

- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.

- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.

And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.

Reasonable stuff.

As a correction - at EK you get paid for the entire block time. Not that you need to rely on duty pay because it is much more similar to previous CX, where you’re on a base salary that accounts for the vast majority of your income.

If you are referring to me, I'm not an avid supporter by any means and I agree with you, in that the thresholds may not last and can be adjusted as/when CX deem fit. For those that are returning to HKG I don't judge them but I hope they are not basing their return on what productivity others are getting right now, a very dangerous move if so. I also said HKG only works if you have NO children or ones who have left the nest.

If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.

May I ask, are you still in HKG?

I think CX still have a lot of new pilots application, and the current pilots not leaving fast enough. hahahaha....

I wasn’t referring to you, no. I’ve already moved on (very recently) but it just astounds me the people defending them.

I think a misunderstanding on your side. Rather than "defending" their employer, I see individuals evaluating their options and conclude the status quo is still more advantageous than the alternatives available. That's all.

So advantageous that the seniority number is struggling to stay above 2400 pilots? Tell me what you find so advantageous about forking our more money to cover expenses that we’re covered under previous contracts?

I find your argument illogical. Past losses are not an intrinsic argument.

Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.

Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.

But the principle is always the same.

That’s the worst comparison I have ever read.

Wow…


I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.

- How many loops did you do to get above the threshold (unless you were on the 747)?

- So how many young B scalers and C scalers have got a place paid off suitable for a family? Not a single one I have flown with recently

Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.

- Your friends must be all in the top 300 of the seniority list, definitely not a benchmark for the average CX pilot

As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.

- Correct, or be a returnee who got his pfund paid out, one annual salary as a good bye present and return on Capt 4 after having NOT experienced the worst two years of HKG ever. Sounds like a great deal.

Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.

Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.

Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.

- Pretty much every pilot with kids in an ESF school is financially &%$#ed - what a great place to be. No wonder literally everyone is trying to get into training so they can become an STC ASAP and make the big bucks.

And the rest…???

I did say "MHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you."

However, I understand and respect your points and you are right, a lot of my friends are very senior.

It all sounds a terrible mess over there right now and I hope it gets better for those who remained or have returned.