“there's a time to fight for personal freedoms and against the overreach of a coercive government but this isn't one of those times.”

Well at least you admit it is an overreach. When is the time to fight oppression, once you are behind bars? Like most things lost, it’s much harder to get back once it’s gone.

People are starting to rise up. That is good, that is the only thing that will stop this madness. It has nothing to do with the virus that kills 0.3% of infected. There is more to this than the main-stream narrative. No need for tin-foil hats, just look at the math.

In general, about 160 Million people die every year from all causes, worldwide. Roughly 50% of deaths are caused by cardiovascular disease; that’s 80 Million people every year, worldwide. And yet you see nothing done in the least except to push meds that ease the suffering and prolong living unhealthily for a few extra years.

4.4 Million deaths from COVID so far in almost 2 years. This justifies a major international push to get a vaccine with a 60% efficacy and waning effects after a few months. Now with FDA approval, but without guidance on how many doses you need.

Looks to me like the FDA is about as good at regulating as the FAA. Funded by the industry which it regulates, and a guaranteed pipeline into a cushy multi-million dollar job for the regulators when they “retire”.

I think the vaccine is definitely not unsafe in the short term, but only time will tell how safe it is long term. But taking it doesn’t open anything up. You must still mask up, you still have to quarantine, you still do the exact same level of testing. Doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist to ask, what’s the point? It’s a rational conclusion especially for the ones at low risk (Under 70 with no co-morbidities).

1. No-one knows what a Covid-Infection does to you in the long term.
2. We know that a Covid-Infection in the short term can have devastating effects.
3. The point is to dampen the epidemiological course by dampening the spread. The point is not to overload the hospital system. The point is to reduce the risk of spreading by considerably reducing the risk of infection when getting in contact with the virus. The point is to reduce the amount of virus replication in your body to dampen the emergence of mutations.

1. If you are healthy without underlying conditions, mostly nothing.

2. only for some. Mostly, elederly and those with 2 or more underlying health conditions. What some would refer to as “chronically ill”. Frail people can die from many things, like falling and breaking a hip can be deadly with diabetes and other chronic illness. But we don’t ban walking for the whole population to prevent it amongst the high-risk.

3. That’s not the point because Delta variant spreads the same wether vaccinated or not. See one of the world’s most vaccinated countries, Israel. Besides, hospitals get overwhelmed every season of whatever, or even during bad single events like big fires or accidents.

Nobody builds big expensive ICUs to just sit empty
most of the time. But we make due in large scale events anyway just fine. You prepare for reasonable scenarios, not every possible scenario. Otherwise, we would never leave the house without a helmet and full body armor, with an emergency med kit and defrib strapped to your back. You know, just “in case”.

So please just accept that this is endemic and something we will learn to live with like the flu or the common cold virus. Life is meant to be lived with risk, not with zero risk; that’s called existing, not living. Imagine if we ran aviation with zero risk. We would never leave Kitty City, the bus ride to the jet is the deadliest part of the journey FFS. 🤦‍♂️

Amen to that.

You did not get my point, I guess you are part of the anti-vaccination-by-principle camp. At least you show the usual distorted perception of medical facts.

My answers were a reply to your argument against the vaccine, "but only time will tell how safe it is long term." (you meant the vaccine with this).

Well, I tell you if you choose between the vaccine and an infection, also with an infection we don't know the long term effects. So this comparison is a draw.

However, as you concede, an infection does "If you are healthy without underlying conditions, mostly nothing". Exactly. MOSTLY. Except the millions of cases worldwide that were not in this mostly category and ended in death or heavy complications. In comparison, the vaccine however does really nothing, except protecting. There are no known real harmful side-effects, which would in any way make an infection the better choice compared to the vaccine.

Braking a hip or diabetes can be deadly, true, but they do not have the potential of completely flooding a whole regions or countries health system within a short period of time, something you can in no way compare to a very local short lasting strain on a single hospital. That is what makes Covid different from all the other usual bunch of illnesses or reasons of dying.

And no, Delta does not spread the same whether vaccinated or not. Only if you are one of the few cases which happen to have a breakthrough infection (despite being vaccinated) you can have a similar viral load like an unvaccinated person, however the vaccinated person clears the virus faster than an unvaccinated person, reducing the vaccinated persons risk of spreading considerably. Additionally, most vaccinated persons do not develop an infection upon contact with the virus, and therefore do also not become spreaders of the virus. So the vaccine dampens the spread, althoug it seems less than what was hoped for initially. However some dampening is still better than none against the mechanisms of epidemiological spread.

And what is happening in Israel does not make a case against vaccination, quite the opposite: it makes a case for re-vaccination after a certain time, similar to the flu vaccin, since the vaccin clearly protects, but may be with less efficacy over time.

All these medical facts have nothing to do whether someone accepts that Covid is here to stay or not. Indeed I believe so too that it will become endemic. However the right thing to do is to assure that as many people as possible make their first contact with the virus surface in the form of a completely harmless vaccine and not in the form of this aggressive virus. Otherwise the impact on our health system will be terrible where anti-contact measures are relaxed.

Last but not least: your comparison with aviation risk is completely off the mark. On a world population of roughly 8 billion, we had so far 4.4 Million death due to Covid. IATA had pre crisis (year 2019) roughly 4.5 Billion passengers, which would translate to roughly 2.5 Million death in aviation accidents. I think everybody can agree that your comparison is a bit emotional, but in no way reasonable.

The way forward is to vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. There is really no other solution as long as we do not have any working treatment. The vaccine is safe, has been used hundreds of millions of times by now worldwide, protects nearly completely from a severe case and dampens the spreading of the virus.

Sqwak7700

on your point 3, not according to this study. link to the study in the article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberth...s-study-finds/

‘Well Pogie , since you are so well educated about Covid , why don’t you send me some research to blow holes in my post prove me wrong instead of demonstrating your ignorance
I would be very happy to give you research data from top virologists which is what my conclusions are based on

A coworker tested positive at HKIA months after receiving moderna vaccine and was still kidnapped to the hospital by HKG CCP health authorities. Rest of crew sent to penny bay despite also being vaxed, testing negative, and asymptomatic. Why not let the freighter pilots such as these go back to their aircraft and return home for quarantine? Why does the CCP insist on whisking us away to quarantine gulags for 21 days? I have the vax but when you treat people no differently with it as without it when they test positive you just give the anti vaxxers more fuel. I agree with most of the rest of what you say there.

You cant fight the local government or the national government. No matter how unreasonable it might seem to you.

Maybe Junius Ho can be the one to lead the vaccine rate to higher levels. He's always the one speaking up about anything patriotic. Heil to the north.

35 days left till the "last" 1st dose available.

What do you mean by the "last" 1st Dose available ? Will they stop vaccinations ?

Technically yes they are meant to be stopping first doses at the Community Vaccination Centres. It won't stop though. They couldn't allow that to happen (but they aren't exactly smart)

I thought it was by vax expiry date?

no more until next year

probably sinovac only after that date

Morrison finally wakes up. Will Lam follow suit with Ardern catching up?
 

Why has Australia switched tack on Covid zero? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58406526

spoke too soon:

New Zealand borders to remain closed for rest of the year https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58182418

Two paywalls there, which is not a lot of use on a thread, but dimsum daily is free to view.

AC crew detention.
 

More craziness, no need to detain just send them back home FFS.
https://torontosun.com/news/national...ive-covid-test

This is why most Airlines from Europe and North America slip crews through HKG from various places. I am surprised AC isn’t doing so.

Are BA still doing the layovers or did that end when they locked up the flight attendant last year in Penny's hole? Surprised many are left actually staying anymore. Too much risk.