What a load of crap, can you provide any evidence that your so called "leftist academia" believe such balderdash? No, I thought so, more likely just a reflection of your far rightish claptrap beliefs.

STW. There is a difference between "hoping to not get laid off"...and understanding that at certain times it is necessary to protect the value of the career itself. You are aware of that of course.

Accepting to be laid off to preserve the value of the career.. haha, brilliant :-)))

Airline pilots never cease to amaze me with their rw capitalist beliefs, the cognitive dissonance is astounding. We have a situation where the airlines are bleeding ****loads of money with long term consequences and cxorist believes in a union leftist FOFO principal. Nowhere in the commercial world would that stand, not in finance, law, accounting or, ****, anywhere but a trade union workshop floor style, workplace.

The likes of cxorist want all the rw claptrap low taxes etc while insisting on the privileges of a tradesperson.

I don't think even you are that thick STW. If the company could force pay cuts through (which we all know would take years to recoup...if ever) to subsidize unneeded crew, the value of the career would be correspondingly reduced, most likely permanently. It's not about the "individual" career that I was referring to, but the overall value of the career of pilot itself (such as Fedex FO's making over $50K usd /mo...yes, that is an FO). You of course know exactly what I was referring to....but you seem to prefer to argue for the sake of it.

Couldn't agree more. The airline is bleeding billions, and has hundreds if not over a 1000 pilots too many. Therefore, furlough the required number, as per the contract. That is nothing to do with "union workshop style", and everything to do with what is written in the contract (otherwise, why bother with any contract at all?).

I agree - but how long for do you think CX has a 1000 pilots to many? Please not that I am not arguing with you, I am just asking a question. Yes, they have too many pilots now, but somewhere in 2021 some travel will start, very slowly though. 2022/3 I think we will be busy (that is just my opinion).

That’s exactly right STW! If CX breaks the LIFO contracts it has now, why would anyone be so stupid as to believe them going forward? Even facing a furlough, pilots with an inkling of sense should want an employer with enough integrity to honor their contracts. Otherwise, why would anyone sign one of these contracts and want to work for CX? Perhaps CX thinks they can prey on the young, dumb, and inexperienced indefinitely. This thread certainly makes a case for that.

Are low taxes antithetical to being a tradesperson? Is honoring a contract and seniority antithetical to the “right wing”?

The public school system really did a number on you exfocx!

Is it a socialist tenet that contracts be respected and a capitalist tenet that contracts be broken? Quite the opposite imo. Capitalists sign contracts with their skilled labor to secure their services over the long term. Socialists don’t need to do this. The government determines wages, benefits, changes, etc.

Autocrats far prefer socialism to true capitalism because, for them, it’s all about controlling the people (laborers). Capitalism within an open economy gives free movement to labor, which is why corporations sign long term contracts to secure its labor.

You public school propogandized really, really need to put your thinking caps on...

You call it a contract, everywhere else it's called an award, like all trades / low-semi - skilled work etc. Tell me which profession like Law, Accounting, Engineering, Finance etc where you have a mass contract? No one in any other PROFESSIONAL field would get that. They would look at the revenue you generate (as a lawyer / accountant etc) and in your circumstances the revenue of a 15 yr CA compared to a 5 yr CA is the same. Then in that case the most expensive is gone. You talk to any employee somewhere like BHP / RIO and see if the engineers or hydrologists are made redundant on LIFO.

Other than for pilots there are is no SENORITY. Management will decide who goes and who stays and LIFO.......lololol..... they've never heard of it.

Lol - some pilots always think there are more special than the rest of the world !!!!!

If you could use the correct grammar, maybe all of us could understand what you are saying. By the look of it, you would fit the COS18 profile perfectly! Get that CV in ASAP!

Really? Chances are Volare 737 speaks more than one language, so he may have made an error in grammar, or he just missed a spelling mistake from thinking to typing, which you see a lot. Now, how many languages do you speak or write?


Btw, I do think flying is different for a number of reasons (seniority), but it just ****s me to tears when I see rw pilots who take what is an organised labour position when it suits them.

I really like it when they demand a bail out by the government

I see you also really excelled at school.

Sorry Man !!! Some of us might not be so serious to even check what we are writing !!! I will try to get to your level one day !!!!

Nobody in here excelled at school, You wouldn't be in this line of work if you had :-))

You could try, but good luck! They really like people who don't take things serious on these COS18 contracts, you would fit in well. How does that saying go again... You pay peanuts, expect to get... Oh dear can't remember the rest, but anyway!

Exactly !!! Some of those guys on here should get a real job and then talk !!!!

OK !!! I will talk to those guys OK !!! Maybe all of people can get real job !!! I let u know !!

Perfecto !!!!!

Actually, I did quite well at an excellent university and could have taken a number of jobs in finance (investment banking, consulting, venture capital) that probably would have brought me back to uni for an MBA and/or JD. I chose to serve my country in the military out of a sense of duty and a passion for aviation. I left the military after enough deployments to the desert and started an airline career (mistake).

Perhaps our backgrounds (upbringing and schooling) is why I see things so differently from “your” generation. Cheap cadets pilots with little self respect or sense of worth have taken a once proud career and denigrated it, as was intended by cynical employers that prefer robots over a “Sully” and then brag about their safety focus.

In economics, we call this late stage capitalism when too many goods and services are relegated to commodities (widgets), and input costs are excessively reduced such that the quality of the products are compromised. Hiring low to no time pilots, spinning them through a mini flying school, having them sit on their thumbs for 3-4+ years as SOs, and calling it good is a massive compromise from my vantage point.

That much of the industry does this now is no consolation to me. Flying with CX’s two bar cadet JFOs is usually a lot of work. I miss the ejection seat, both figuratively and literally. Then, we get to be disparaged by the same pilots we just babysat for hours while they put downward pressure on our contracts. Yeah, it’s a bitter pill to swallow.

Don't cry yourself to sleep tonight, darling. And if you could not yell at the kids and not kick the dog, that would be a bonus, Mavedick.

Thank you for proving my point.

Luckily your time is over - you know it, I know it, most people know it. It's gone.

Really? I would consider it quite unlucky actually. You may think you’re going to get lucky, but I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on that if I were you. CX may be ruthless, but they are not stupid.

Don’t kick that dog now, Skip!

“Dog is my copilot”

Oh, how I wish the bumper sticker were true!

Properly raised, respectful, and much smarter than most. Knows when to sit there and be quiet and when to take action. Yes, the dog is wise indeed. No chance of me kicking her.

Dear Captain Cxorcist,

Herewith I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you for sharing your limited time as well as your many talents and great wisdom with us here on an anonymous internet forum. You could have used your time, talent and wisdom for something worthwhile but instead you decided to share it with us.

Cxorcist, there are lots like him, ignore it. Many of us can relate to your longer earlier post.
I'd wager our backgrounds are similar, and at the risk of our newer snowflake generation throwing the same barbs at me, it's pointless trying to explain to them.
Unless they've ever strapped into an ejection seat, launched in a fully loaded combat aircraft, and understand if you are flying over areas where if you eject, and survive, you stand an even chance of having your nuts relocated to your mouth, they will never understand.
They'll never understand how you have the trust to depend on a wingman, meet solid folk who stay lifelong mates, and how those years of military service mold you into an individual with integrity, who becomes principled, and who hates BS.
In short, they just do not have the age and maturity to understand where you're coming from.
The cold hard reality of commercial aviation downsizing may soon be a rather rude awakening for them.
To all, whether you're a brushwing snowflake, an oldie, or somewhere in between, I wish you well in the forthcoming restructure.

What a truly sad display of a divided pilot group.

Management just sits back and watches you all taunt each other as if you know the other group is going to get chopped. Of course nobody knows anything, and that's likely by design so management can let the fear of the unknown fester and drive you all to make these uninformed forecasts. The public negotiating where scared individuals say the minimum they are willing to take to save the company are just icing on the cake.

Its a conversation going on in pilot bars around the world regarding CX management;

“They sacked 49 guys to intimidate the others, but I trust them.
They hired direct entry captains in breach of the contract and got away with it by calling them rapid commands, but I trust them.
They shut down the fiasco that was the Paris base on the excuse of an aircraft swap, but I trust them.
They stopped paying expat allowances by calling everyone, irrespective of experience, cadets, but I trust them.
They ignored a signed agreement with the Adelaide instructors, but I trust them.
They became the only mainline airline in the world to introduce a productivity pay system while not giving crew any control over their productivity, but I trust them.
They sacked employees for making political comments on social media, but I trust them.
BUT, if they don’t comply with every clause of cxorcist’s contract then they’ve lost my trust.”

Cxorcist, you are passionately demanding a free market, as long as the big corporations understand that you are special, disregard demand and supply of labour, honor seniority, your employer negotiates fairly with your union, your contract never is cancelled and safety is regarded as more important than profits.
And to find all that you decided to move to Hong Kong.