PPRuNe Forums - HK Express

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Hi guys

Just a couple of queries regarding HK Express especially in the world post COVID. I’m looking at applying for an A320 role and was wondering if anyone in the know could help out with a few questions.

-Does anyone know when recruitment and interviews are penciled in at this point in time? I understand that this is fluid and nothing is certain and subject to change at the moment. However if people have been told ‘No hiring for the rest of 2020’ for example, that would be a good gauge
-What is the contract term? Is it 12, 24, 36 months or open ended? Also is there a bond associated with it?
-As for rostering, I understand you can opt for 3 weeks on, 1 week off. Or 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off etc... is this correct?

Also any other info would be great and beneficial.

Cheers in advance

ZKSUJ

Why not give them a call, and if they answer, see what they say!
Please post their replies here.

I shall apologize in advance........
You cannot be serious? We are in the middle of Covid-19 and the industry has been decimated.
My guess is that recruitment will be on hold for quite a while and I mean years not months.
At the moment most pilots flying passenger jets are on a roster that is almost "permanently off".
Have a look at the pictures of all the parked jets at CLK.

I really cannot see that there will be any roles available for several years.

If I’ve learned anything in my years, it is that hope springs eternal in new pilots. I remember applying to major airlines with just over 300 hours.

The first ones to be employed next year or after will be those about to be laid off later this month.

Thanks guys,

Reason I'm inquiring is not because I am new nor am I inexperienced. I'm putting my feelers out there. Like many others I'm type rated with hours on the machine and have been made redundant form another carrier In a different part of the world due to COVID19.

I know the state of the world, but with the website still open to applications I figured no harm in asking what others know right? Yes I've seen the pictures, Yes I know the story. No I'm not applying for a job with only 300 hours. It's simply a query from a guy who is now out of work.

With the closing of SAA I believe that most sfos will go east...As Dragon Pacific said, most of the laid off will be picked up although doesnt hurt to inquire/apply. Hours dont necessarily always mean everything..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandblaster232 (Post 10773926)

Absolutely, no harm in asking at all. Like I said, only looking as they had positions open for application for type rated pilots with 500+ hours on type. Why not ask about it right?

Some of the comments above remind me why I stopped using PPrune years ago when I got into the airlines. Anyway, good luck to everyone and thanks to those who have helped

Well, considering HKE is still advertising online, I can't really blame ZKSUJ from asking related questions. Good luck to him. We've all been there...

ZKSUJ

The company line is that they are still recruiting but they have to obviously wait until borders open before they can fly guys in for an interview.
Expansion of HKE is still on the cards.
Don’t listen to those posts above, they are scared because their T&Cs are about to be ravaged and the money CX save will be used to expand HKE.

Also further to your first question, it’s a 3 year contract with a 1 year bond if you are type rated, 3 years if not.

3 on/1 off or 6 on/ 2 off, is only available to the guys at the very top of the seniority list but what will happen after the crisis has passed, anyone’s guess.

pm me if you got any questions.

Longtimeincx asks a 100% valid question. Have you called them directly yet - surely word directly from the horses mouth is far better than soliciting second hand heresay? It would be interesting to hear what they say.

talked to them last week, they are still hiring but there are hundreds of applicants... so expect a long wait..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecam321 (Post 10773953)

Don’t listen to those posts above, they are scared because their T&Cs are about to be ravaged and the money CX save will be used to expand HKE.

Are your T&C's rock-solid? I heard COS18 guys were being earmarked for HKEX. I believe their contract less than yours.

I think CX were still trying to work out how HKEX could ever turn a profitable dollar in a world of a vibrant LCC market to Japan. Now?

Thanks everyone for the comments and answers. Much appreciated and some very helpful PMs as well.

No one aims to be out of work but as many are experiencing now its the reality for many. In which case you explore optiona you wouldnt have thought about only a few months ago.

Thanks again and I wish everyone well

CoS18 is more than HKE when not flying as now but when both are flying then CoS18 is less than HKE.
I don’t think both KA and HKE will survive. Cathay Express?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific (Post 10774990)

CoS18 is more than HKE when not flying as now but when both are flying then CoS18 is less than HKE.
I don’t think both KA and HKE will survive. Cathay Express?

Maybe both KA and HKE might merge CXE.. Hong Kong Dragon EXpress….

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific (Post 10774990)

CoS18 is more than HKE when not flying as now but when both are flying then CoS18 is less than HKE.
I don’t think both KA and HKE will survive. Cathay Express?

Actually when I compared them it looked like the other way around. HKE contract better than Cos18 when there is no flying, like now. They equal out around 70 hours. Fly 70+ hours and Cos18 is better.
Also Cos18 has a far better MPF contribution than HKE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecam321 (Post 10775090)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKE Insider (Post 8652541)

Interview Process:
1. Panel Interview with management pilots
2. Simulator Assessment
3. COMPASS Test
4. Medical Check
5. English Test

The simulator is done completely raw data. Expect to do V1 Cut, ILS Go around and other airwork such as intercepting a VOR Radial.

Salary
All salary is based on 50hrs guaranteed. If you fly more than 50hrs in the month you will be payed at an overtime hourly rate. On average expect to fly about 70hrs a month. The numbers quoted below is the total salary.

There is a relocation allowance.

First Officer
<1500hrs Jet = HK$53750
1500-3000hrs Jet = HK$68750
3000hrs+ Jet = HK$78750

Captain
<3000hrs Jet PIC = HK$106250
3000hrs+ Jet PIC = HK$116250

28 Days Annual Leave + Wrap around days off before and after you leave periods.
14 Days Sick Leave

Command Upgrades
HKE has always had a very active upgrade program. It was stopped due to the fleet change but has now started again this month. There are already a number of candidates selected for the coming months.Selection is based on seniority and you are required to be in the company for 12months and meet all flying experience requirements. Line captains are asked to submit their choices to training department as to who they think are suitable for promotion.

Lifestyle
Normally about 10 days off per month
3 Red eye flights per month
1 Overnight per month (Tokyo - may be removed during winter schedule)

The flying is good. The crews are very nice to work with. A good mixture from all around the world.

The company currently has 8 aircraft with the 9 by years end and many more coming next year.

The culture and standards of HKE is very different to Hong Kong Airlines. They are 2 separate companies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeepinItReelHK (Post 9649171)

Is it possible Hainan controls Pprune as well?

Anyone coming to Hong Kong, you should have read the posts from CX and KA boys&girls, so let me try to give you a briefing again.

HKExpress.
F/O with less than 1500 Jet Time: total package 56'250HKD/month
F/O with 1500<Jet Time<3000: total package 75'250HKD/month
F/O with more than 3000 Jet Time: total package 85'250HKD/month

Captain with less than 3000 Jet PIC: 114'000HKD/month
Captain with more than 3000 Jet PIC: 124'000HKD/month

That is up to 50hrs/month guaranteed.
From 50 to 60 hrs, F/O gets 500HKD/hour, Captain gets 800HKD/hour.
60 hours and above, F/O gets 650HKD/hour, Captain gets 1000HKD/hour.

3 levels of bonus, F/O average 60'000HKD/year, Captain 100'000HKD/year.

MPF 1500HKD/month (yes, one thousand five hundred dollars only) same for everyone.

No inflationary compensation, no increase whatsoever with the years of service. Loyalty is NOT rewarded.

28 days of Annual leave, take in blocks 8 days or more you get 4 days to travel.

No tickets back home. No Commuting. Annual Leave at the sole discretion of the GMF. Terrible most basic medical insurance by BoC. No school allowance.

F/O upgrades to Captains - 6 per year on average. Now there's 100 F/O in this company, do your math. The Director of Operations will even tell that nowhere have you signed to be upgraded to Captain.

Yes you can fly 100 hours/month and make a lot of money, but on average you can only fly 900hrs/year, so do your math on your average salary.

Cathay Dragon C-scale F/O year 1 compared to HKE Captain, having all the goodies in mind, makes only 10% less. And I haven't even started on Annual Leave.

Expenses in Hong Kong:
Housing: 25'000 - 40'000 (single or family) for anything decent.
Utilities: 4'000 - 5'000
Food: 10'000 - 20'000 (family or no family)
School: 8'000 - 13'000 (per kid, depending on the school and kids age)
Maid: 5'000 (and if you have a family you do need one in HK)
Tax: 15% if you're single, 10% if you have a family
Inflation: 4% per year

You still haven't gone out and had a beer with your friends, or paid the tickets back home.

If you're a single F/O and living modestly, or a single Captain just living OK, you could be saving some money. F/O on these terms will be struggling to get by, Captain on these terms will NOT be saving any money (or you could be saving zero anywhere else in the world, let's say your own country).

Anyone coming here will realise after a few months something is wrong.

Pilots have had enough. Turnover is 25%.

You do fly around 70 hours/month and you do it in 12 days, plus 4-5 standbys.

Everything else is below standard.

You have been warned.

Are the pay still the same like this one from hk express old thread?
and how much is relocation allowance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by never ready (Post 10773860)

Actually not, I know of a few ex HKA guys who literally joined a few weeks ago.

HK Express is gearing up for a larger future role for short haul china & SE asia ops out of hk. With KA diverting some of its A320 Neo’s to hke, we can all see the writing is on the ( lavatory) wall for KA.

HKE recruitment will chance their arm, and offer lower T&Cs than the incumbents, and that includes HKA, who were the poor pilots of hk.

In the current climate, I would expect that they will have an abundance of qualified crews applying, many from europe. This will continue for the foreseeable future, as the true effects of Covid19 are felt throughout the industry.

HKE are cash rich. They will survive and expand. They need crews. Better to earn than not. The real concern will be Cathay Dragon, with their antiquated crewing COS , that is high cost for lower productivity. They are stifled by unionisation, multi layered management and an ageing workforce.

It would be hilareous to see guys leaving ka to go to hke. Even mentioning this 2 years ago would be net with a what the f#$# are you talking about. The new normal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krone (Post 10775417)

That might be the offer on the table....redundant 80% of KA crew, offer whatever new terms they can think of for those guys to go to HKE WHEN they can offer them a start date.... similar rumour already running among cabin crew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krone (Post 10775417)

HKE are cash rich. ..................The real concern will be Cathay Dragon, with their antiquated crewing COS , that is high cost for lower productivity. They are stifled by unionisation, multi layered management and an ageing workforce.

Ill be interested if you can explain how a grounded LCC with a primarily Japanese market ( state of emergency ) is cash rich?

KA productivity is a metric of its operating environment. Stifled by unionisation? We haven't been in contract compliance for a decade. Ageing workforce? You seem to oddly be dissing your own having sat pretty due old guys and stifling unionism. Perhaps its all coming crashing down, for the most part I'm thankful of folks before me, who preserved and improved COS and pushed back on a wide array of safety issues and maintained good standards.

Cash rich! You are so funny Krone. HKE’s flight cancellations are now until 30th June and no doubt will go well beyond that too.
You may not have noticed but we all have the same boss. Massive changes are about to happen and we are all in the same sinking boat.
We’ll all be on a new common CoS. Time to adjust to the “new normal” as they say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krone (Post 10775417)

The HKE and HKA package are exactly the same.

Post Covid19, when the dust begins to settle, HKE’s LCC model is going to be the way forward, with cash strapped pax, who still want to get away. HKE will be expanded unfortunately, probably at the expense of KA.

It won’t just be Japan but all across China and South East Asia. I genuinely feel for all fellow pilots that are going to have a life change from all this.But WRT HKE I don’t subscribe to the doomsday scenario, because we represent where CX want to take the rest of you.

Looks like it’s happening. More news this pm. Hang on to your hats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific (Post 10776030)

Looks like it’s happening. More news this pm. Hang on to your hats.

Still waiting....can I let go yet?

what happened to the missing thread complete with 3 links to Chinese press?

The person who started the thread deleted it.

Rob

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaki...-restructuring

Quote:

Local media reported today that the airline operator was planning to scrap the operation of Cathay Dragon and merge the branch with HK Express, to form a new company Cathay Express, citing market sources. Cathay Pacific also planned to lay off staff and cut 30 percent of the salary of its pilots, sources said.

No other papers though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herewego75 (Post 10777066)

Spreading fake news or was it just all rubbish? What do the KA guys think?

B scale contracts are pretty solid. A 30 % reduction in salary is vague and unenforceable without pilot or more likely, DPA consent . Maybe removal of HDP but thats about it. Even on unpaid leave, most B scalers have their mortgages paid up-to HK$70000/ month.

C scale is a bit different. The company can remove all variable components.

Better 30% reduction than no job.
Senior captains can afford it. Junior ones will make do.
The CX group don’t want to loose any pilots, just negotiate ( enforce?) better and more equitable deal with those it has .

My first reaction to Krone's post was to LMFAO, but then I remembered who we're dealing with here, Kathy Pathetic, anything is possible :sad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by herewego75 (Post 10777066)

Spreading fake news or was it just all rubbish? What do the KA guys think?

I have some friends at CX and KA, this rumour spread like wildfire through the frontlines, the idea that there'd be Cathay Pacific for full-service and Cathay Express as the LCC, but all seems to have been rumour. Danny Lee at SCMP was covering this and in a series of Tweets said it was all a beat-up, not even CX right now knows what the short-term future holds apparently.