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Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 10398926)
Sad truth is Asturias is not far off the mark. I’m pretty sure that were your positions to be advertised next week, there would be a very long queue of crew lining up to fill them and each would be happy to accept half your present T’s&C’s. By way of example, just look to HKE and it’s ilk and tell me I’m wrong. Is it right? No. Is it ethical? Of course Not. No one of my era recommends this as a career choice for the young. This is a big change from say 20 years ago. Here is the harsh reality of the dumbing down of a profession by technology. Modern aircraft and ATC systems go a long way to making them shall we say... “crash resistant”. It is this metric which emboldens your freshly minted MBA wielding Managers. They may come for the shiny jets and endorsements, and they will leave just as quickly for proper remuneration and/or a western standard lifestyle. They pay enough for the single guy with nothing to lose, but it will not be enough long-term for a young family. Is that right? Is that ethical? I don't know, but it is what the market will bear.. |
Yup!
Originally Posted by CX ex
(Post 10398884)
While you're certainly correct that airlines can indeed thrive while paying livable wages, it needs to be said why. Delta, United, American, Southwest etc.. do not pay what they pay because they WANT to, they pay that because they HAVE to.
Why do they HAVE to? Because the pilots (and other employee groups) are extremely organized and maintain their leverage. Something that has taken many years and in some cases some hard lessons. They have hard fought contracts that protect agains management threats and strategies as well as potential management threats. Never forget why management and "leadership" is there. To make money. Only two ways to do it. Make more, or spend less. Strong labor unions ensure one of those options is more or less off the table. Wot he said. Add in the fact that the company does not care about you while money is being made from your efforts and you will have the starting point for any negotiations. |
Originally Posted by mngmt mole
(Post 10398821)
... and most important of all, positive management/employee relations (oh, and massive profits....). The difference is a management that values its employees, treats them properly and respects their contribution to the overall growth and prosperity of the airline...
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You can make witty remarks about pilots pronouncing on economics but it doesn't change the facts that it's happening -in fact HAS happened to all too many people elswhere.Mole is correct - it IS possible to run an airline which is both succesful and looks after its people - but the number can be counted on maybe 2 fingers
It's not just airlines- most western industries and busineses have the same problem - wages go down in real terms, conditions are worse and the top 0.5% have 50 to 100 times more money You can rail against it all you like but there is no way you'll change anything I'm afraid |
Nuttin you can do ya know !
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 10400032)
It's not just airlines- most western industries and busineses have the same problem - wages go down in real terms, conditions are worse and the top 0.5% have 50 to 100 times more money
You can rail against it all you like but there is no way you'll change anything I'm afraid Are you on the GC? Just wondering because you sound similarly as apathetic as the AOA "leaders" who recommended POS18 and equally so all the AOA members who voted to accept that garbage. "Apathy" is the Cancer that's been rotting the HKAOA membership for some 25 years now and I'm afraid it's now at Stage 4.. |
What are the chances CX would ever do something like this...? Delta to Pay Over $1 Billion in Profit Sharing to Its Employees MACH.88 😎 |
Well let’s look at the 2 different options 1 ) I work for delta I get about 5.5 weeks of profit share , I’m on a G day, Delta Crewing phone . I would only have 2 questions where and when do you want me . 2) I work for Cathay they shafted me out of 13th cheque . I’m on a G day , crew control phone ,answer machine picks up because I’m not stupid enough to answer the phone in the first place . usual story if you don’t do it the flight will be cancelled I only have 1 question why haven’t you cancelled it already because I ain’t doing it Treat your staff well they will do everything they can to reciprocate . Treat them like sh-t and they will do everything to get even . Very short sighted policy , but no one at Cathay cares any more |
Well, QF announced a $A67 million bonus to staff, but then placed conditions upon it which means it's unlikely to ever be paid to anyone.....except management.
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Originally Posted by mrdeux
(Post 10400460)
Well, QF announced a $A67 million bonus to staff, but then placed conditions upon it which means it's unlikely to ever be paid to anyone.....except management.
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Originally Posted by cannot
(Post 10400458)
Well let’s look at the 2 different options 1 ) I work for delta I get about 5.5 weeks of profit share , I’m on a G day, Delta Crewing phone . I would only have 2 questions where and when do you want me . 2) I work for Cathay they shafted me out of 13th cheque . I’m on a G day , crew control phone ,answer machine picks up because I’m not stupid enough to answer the phone in the first place . usual story if you don’t do it the flight will be cancelled I only have 1 question why haven’t you cancelled it already because I ain’t doing it Treat your staff well they will do everything they can to reciprocate . Treat them like sh-t and they will do everything to get even . Very short sighted policy , but no one at Cathay cares any more |
Originally Posted by Freehills
(Post 10400810)
i think in delta you will find the work rules/ reserve coverage is such that a call out on a G day would either never happen, or be a sign that the rapture has just happened... |
Originally Posted by cxorcist
(Post 10401022)
Delta doesn’t have G days or, therefore, G day callouts. What they do have is a robust and user friendly trip trade and open time system. When crews get short, they incentivize pilots to pick up open time by offering time and a half. Simple and logical, unlike the broken musical chairs that CX plays where everybody affected by disruption gets screwed. |
Originally Posted by unitedabx
(Post 10401698)
The difference you are describing is where one airline is looking to the future, expansion and a sound working relationship with it's employees and customers and one which which couldn't give a sh*t.
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I agree with the above. Let us not forget, although this is predominately a pilot's forum, that many other sectors and departments of the company feel the same way about the managerial style. The rot is not one worm on our side of the apple.
As you ask around the other departments it is appalling that a publicly quoted company can be reduced to having such a dis-functional workforce. Recruiting top management from such a small educational sector as Swire has done for many years has missed out on the diversity that an international company requires. The corporate culture has become toxic and abusive in around the last twenty years. M mole you are probably right. It is almost beyond fixing. The Gordon Bethunes of the world are almost extinct, and that is the management style that would be required to recover CX to its former glory of a workforce that would walk over broken glass to get an excellent job done. In the last couple of days I have been reading the wannabees forums destined for CX. It is woeful. |
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