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-   -   AC or CX (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/618375-ac-cx.html)

ardibee 13th Feb 2019 23:16

AC or CX
 
I'm wondering if anyone has information that I can use to compare the contracts of Air Canada and Cathay Pacific.

I'm thinking of leaving one for the other.

Any Air Canada pilots, which are former CX pilots (Visa Versa) on here that can shed some light?

(Pay, Pension, Leave, Bidding, OT, Duty Pay, Allowances, Morale, Typical Roster)

Thanks

viking avenger 14th Feb 2019 02:50

Surely this is a wind up, but I'll bite.
CX has No Pension, No leave slots even if you have 6 weeks leave, There is no Bidding, OT is uncontrolled , Duty pay is uncontrolled , No morale, No Roster Stability.

ardibee 14th Feb 2019 03:01

Not a wind up. I just really want to know how green the grass is on the other side.

cykzstudent 14th Feb 2019 03:16

I'm actually facing the same choice right now. All depends on what you are looking for. If you're an SO, its an absolute no-brainer to go for AC. Otherwise, its a bit more of a difficult choice. AC you'll be on flat pay for 4 years. Your monthly pay will be less than $25k HKD before taxes, so hopefully you got a good nest egg saved up. The variety at AC I think is second to none however, which I think is the huge attraction factor for me. Also there is plenty of movement right now so you might get a quick upgrade which takes some pain off that flat pay. Another downside of AC is if you end up on reserve, you'll have very little control over your days off. Something to think about if you have child-care issues. Good luck with your decision. I struggled with mine.

AQIS Boigu 14th Feb 2019 13:09

We have FOs on full housing resigning to go to AC.

What does that tell you?

controlledrest 14th Feb 2019 17:26

We have pilots resigning to go to Easyjet. What does that tell you?

SaulGoodman 14th Feb 2019 17:38

Work for a company that allows you to live where you want to live long time. If you prefer to live in canada AC is the better option. If you prefer HK, go fly cargo ;)

SaulGoodman 14th Feb 2019 17:55

Work for a company that allows you to live where you want to live long time. If you prefer to live in canada AC is the better option. If you prefer HK, go fly cargo ;)

cxorcist 14th Feb 2019 18:10


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10390156)
Work for a company that allows you to live where you want to live long time. If you prefer to live in canada AC is the better option. If you prefer HK, go fly cargo ;)

The problem is that even if you prefer HK, you can’t live there well on the new contract, POS18. On top of that, you will work for a spiteful and vengeful employer that despises you. They will do everything in their power to control every facet of your life. HK ain’t Canada!

ron burgandy 14th Feb 2019 18:52

We have a Chief Pilot resigning to own and fly a busted arse Dash 8-100 and Beech 1900 in a country with a recession on the horizon.......what does that tell you.

plainpilot11 14th Feb 2019 22:24

At the last company I worked for, I knew the gig was up when the CP was helping us get interviews at other carriers, helping us with our resumes, and putting us in contact with their CP’s.

Seems like he’s not one with his head in the sand. Good for him. Best of luck in your new career ME!

Slasher1 14th Feb 2019 23:16


Originally Posted by ron burgandy (Post 10390216)
We have a Chief Pilot resigning to own and fly a busted arse Dash 8-100 and Beech 1900 in a country with a recession on the horizon.......what does that tell you.

That he'll probably be happy and enjoy flying (and life) again.

Loopdeloop 15th Feb 2019 12:48

If you’re under 40 and Canadian you’d have to be mental to stay at CX - oh hold on, they’re about to open bases again 😂.

ardibee 15th Feb 2019 22:53

Opinions
 
Thank you for your answers everyone but does anyone have anything to say that isn't testimony?
Id really like to see some facts about salary, overtime, leave, duty pay, pension etc, so I make my own opinion about the topic.

22N114E 15th Feb 2019 23:27

On the assumption that you are in CX and wondering about the move to AC, have you googled searched 'Air Canada Pilot Contract'? AC entitlements are stated there.

Beyond what the contract states, you would be better off asking in the North American or Canadian forum.

Porterboy 16th Feb 2019 19:27

Here is Air Canada's publicly available contract... http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agr...3/1323006a.pdf

dingodyle 26th Feb 2019 06:27


Originally Posted by cykzstudent (Post 10389383)
If you're an SO, its an absolute no-brainer to go for AC.

Too bad you have a logbook full of P2X time, not even worth the paper its printed on :ugh: but yes new FOs or anyone with time for sure.


Originally Posted by Porterboy (Post 10392048)
Here is Air Canada's publicly available contract...

Thanks for posting this Porterboy !

cpdude 1st Mar 2019 18:13

20 years ago I had a chance to go to AC and I went to CX instead. I never regretted my decision until the last 4-5 years when a combination of a degrading lifestyle and realizing that my nearing retirement will be pensionless while my similar aged friends friends at AC will have a fantastic pension for life. Granted, I don't ever think I would have ever matched my "total" CX salary at AC while employed but with their pension it certainly would have exceeded my overall take from CX.

Personally, I think you have to look at how many years of seniority you will give up and your current age. If you can get 20+ years at AC then it's probably an easy decision but don't go there with rose coloured glasses either. They have some operations (2-man) which are much more difficult than our's but overall, fatigue is less and you have a life!

anxiao 1st Mar 2019 18:45

And you have first world labor laws with first world management practices. Sometimes tough to work under but always with a fair legal status.

CX have nickle and dimed the modest labor laws of HK and then broken them when they did not suit their objective. A deputy DFO admitted to me that they expected to lose half the court cases on HR issues. My reply that running an airline that is 50% illegal did not go down well.

A judge in Hong Kong noted that the airline seemed to be in front of him for HR infringements more than any other company, and chastised management for that. But they still carry on with the same arrogance of impunity.

Unless you have 5 years to go in CX, I would go to the high tax regime in Canada. You will sleep better o'r nights.

unitedabx 2nd Mar 2019 04:09


Originally Posted by anxiao (Post 10404147)
And you have first world labor laws with first world management practices. Sometimes tough to work under but always with a fair legal status.

CX have nickle and dimed the modest labor laws of HK and then broken them when they did not suit their objective. A deputy DFO admitted to me that they expected to lose half the court cases on HR issues. My reply that running an airline that is 50% illegal did not go down well.

A judge in Hong Kong noted that the airline seemed to be in front of him for HR infringements more than any other company, and chastised management for that. But they still carry on with the same arrogance of impunity.

Unless you have 5 years to go in CX, I would go to the high tax regime in Canada. You will sleep better o'r nights.

Some excellent advice being given here but I recently had a beer with a young Canadian FO and I asked him why he was remaining in CX when he had an offer from AC ? The pay is better was his answer. Over a few more beers he described how he had just returned fro 8 months sick leave afer a botched hip operation here in Hong Kong and his young daughter had been diagnosed with asthma and would be on medicines for the forseeable future. His wife was receiving conselling for depression and had spent most of the last 12 months with her parents in YYZ. We discussed our relative house prices in Hong Kong and his had dropped 15% this year placing him close to zero equity IF the CX housing scheme continued. He faces financial ruin if it is altered in anyway or heaven forbid cancelled in the next 10 years. At the end of the evening I asked him again why CX and not Ac. His answer " the pay is better at CX".


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