SCMP 2 Feb 2019
This management truly are tone deaf. The very day after their resounding defeat, the inevitable article in the SCMP basically insisting that we "turned down an offer of improved conditions", and that we are also "the only group who has not contributed to cost savings". RH, you keep digging that hole just a little bit deeper. All the encouragement needed to accept that offer from my next employer. Moron.
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Yes indeed, just as you would expect from the company. The real issue is that there is no press release from us explaining why we rejected this pathetic offer, and rebutting the CX spin. Why wasn’t such a release drafted and ready to go? Oh that’s right, our chairman and GC are in agreement with CX on this. So the AOA should just add +1 to whatever CX spout. |
Originally Posted by Air Profit
(Post 10377932)
This management truly are tone deaf. The very day after their resounding defeat, the inevitable article in the SCMP basically insisting that we "turned down an offer of improved conditions", and that we are also "the only group who has not contributed to cost savings". RH, you keep digging that hole just a little bit deeper. All the encouragement needed to accept that offer from my next employer. Moron.
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It is almost unbelievable. The Company put out a press release that states that the aircrew do not contribute! There can be no agreement with the Management while they continue such a campaign against their own staff. |
Doesn't us rejecting the pay offer inadvertently contribute to cost savings?
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What a load of deceitful, disingenuous drivel. How about the fact that the pilot group has been subsidizing CX with the following:
- No cost of living, inflation adjusted payrise for what, at least a decade? - Medical care that is so pared down that it is scraping the bottom of the Hong Kong medical barrel. - Their paltry and unsustainable Hong Kong Pilot's Allowance for locally employed pilots. - The capricious and arbitrary non-payment of the annual 13th month bonus (while every other labor group received it). - The unilateral changes to the rostering policies that are detrimental to the pilot group's quality of life and bottom line. And yet, they can make these outrageous public declarations that are blatant lies and they go unanswered. Why the hell doesn't the Union have an established public information program to educate the public. The only thing CX seems to be competent at is spin and optics. You guys should have been leading from the front on this from the outset. How about taking some of those war chest levies and using them to hire a public information officer? |
Originally Posted by Ben revoD
(Post 10377937)
Yes indeed, just as you would expect from the company. The real issue is that there is no press release from us explaining why we rejected this pathetic offer, and rebutting the CX spin. Why wasn’t such a release drafted and ready to go? Oh that’s right, our chairman and GC are in agreement with CX on this. So the AOA should just add +1 to whatever CX spout. |
Originally Posted by Starbear
(Post 10377988)
You have it absolutely correct in your first sentence. Unions are notoriously poor in the PR area in general.
Why not have a pre-prepared press statement for either outcome? It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be inflammatory, simply a factual letter stating the facts from the AOA perspective. It isn't surprising that the SCMP writes in this way though - the work ethic in Hong Kong is set up to protect the employer. |
Originally Posted by Roy De Kantzow
(Post 10377998)
The HKAOA are notoriously poor at PR.
Why not have a pre-prepared press statement for either outcome? It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be inflammatory, simply a factual letter stating the facts from the AOA perspective. It isn't surprising that the SCMP writes in this way though - the work ethic in Hong Kong is set up to protect the employer. |
Originally Posted by unitedabx
(Post 10378043)
For this you need leadership. The union hasn't had that for 2 years. Time for the GC and DS to resign. Letters by Monday morning please or you'll all be kicked out by lunchtime.
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Is there likely to be any strike action because of this? Just planning a trip to Europe and getting a little concerned that flights might get cancelled! |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10378703)
Is there likely to be any strike action because of this? Just planning a trip to Europe and getting a little concerned that flights might get cancelled! |
That's right, it was during the post CNY rush. |
Originally Posted by kenfoggo
(Post 10377955)
It is almost unbelievable. The Company put out a press release that states that the aircrew do not contribute! There can be no agreement with the Management while they continue such a campaign against their own staff. |
They all want to be from the Michael O’leary school of management. Why be angry, its just a game. No one likes Swire as employers , only the gullable or naive. Be glad you not in KA, seems an initial offer of ZERO percent may well be put to the membership, with a 3 % raise to HDP. Thats around a HK $500month increase for most captains. Pathetic. |
Originally Posted by TheGreenDragon
(Post 10378775)
They all want to be from the Michael O’leary school of management. Why be angry, its just a game. No one likes Swire as employers , only the gullable or naive. Be glad you not in KA, seems an initial offer of ZERO percent may well be put to the membership, with a 3 % raise to HDP. Thats around a HK $500month increase for most captains. Pathetic. |
hmmm,...considering the recent vote by the CX pilots, it would be the perfect time for the DPA pilots to pile on and insist on proper contract terms. I doubt CX management could handle a civil war on two fronts. Why on earth any GC would recommend "0" percent is beyond me (oh...wait...not much different than our feckless GC). Seriously everyone, it's time to stop accepting abuse, disrespect and constant career erosion from this toxic management. Proper contract increases in pay and benefits, or you can find your operation grinding to a virtual halt with a TB and CC. Not that difficult.
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On a personal note, the fact that the CEO willingly allowed an article in the SCMP the very day after the vote, blaming the pilots (and distorting the truth) means that regardless of any settlement between company and union, I am a CC'er for life. That is what 20+ years of abuse brings you. On a personal note to RH, perhaps you can pick up last weeks edition of Flight International. At the back there is an obituary to Herb Kelleher, the much missed CEO of Southwest Airlines. The qualities and philosophy of that man are the complete antithesis of what our CEO(s) represent, and for that reason they are all small, forgettable human beings in comparison to a man who truly cared and looked after his employees. RIP Herb.
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Originally Posted by unitedabx
(Post 10378782)
Rumour has it DPA has suggested the members accept. They haven't the stomach for a fight.
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This is the same individual who in September stated the DPA were briefed about COS18 prior to its rollout. Just another troll, trying to inflame....
Keep up with the false accusations and it might backfire. |
Originally Posted by unitedabx
(Post 10378782)
Rumour has it DPA has suggested the members accept. They haven't the stomach for a fight.
b. |
Originally Posted by boocs
(Post 10379572)
That is not the case. Wrong! b. |
The part about DPA members not having the stomach for a fight is true. The membership has been diluted by standard contract pilots who have a different motivation and are from a much varied demographic than B scale members. They are generally 20 years younger, and are not in HK because it pays a good whack. They are socially more integrated to local culture and are accepting of their terms and conditions. Small living spaces and taking the bus for an hour to work are considered as normal. Its hard to equate the desires of B and C scale , so to remain neutral will be the most palatable from the DPA comm |
Originally Posted by TheGreenDragon
(Post 10379595)
The part about DPA members not having the stomach for a fight is true. The membership has been diluted by standard contract pilots who have a different motivation and are from a much varied demographic than B scale members. They are generally 20 years younger, and are not in HK because it pays a good whack. They are socially more integrated to local culture and are accepting of their terms and conditions. Small living spaces and taking the bus for an hour to work are considered as normal. Its hard to equate the desires of B and C scale , so to remain neutral will be the most palatable from the DPA comm |
Babbalito, apologies for not understanding your post. Can you tell me in what way Expat B are “f# #king over the SC? If we joined on a different contract, blame the Airline management, not your co-workers; Lots of jobs around, if you don’t like what you get here move somewhere else. |
A fairer way forward would be for expat B to take an overall freeze in pay and financial benefits allowing all increases to go to SC. |
I’m b scale but I never felt ffed over by the a scale, although it was always funny when they would open their little mini photo album and show off their cars, planes, houses.. You get what you signed up for... |
Give the DPA a chance. The com have only just agreed a framework for negotiations. No one has suggested anyone accept anything. Negotiate haven’t even started yet. The bull**** flies thick and fast on this site sometimes. Bab. How about you freeze your contract until the cos 18 guys get to your level and then you can talk to the B scalers about doing the same? Or, here’s a novel thought, why not stop criticising your colleagues and instead try and work together to lift all contracts? Just an idea |
Originally Posted by flyhardmo
(Post 10379903)
A fairer way would be if you didn’t sign an inferior contract undercutting your peers then trying to get them to subsidize your poor decisions. You're expecting a pilot who may be unemployed or looking to further their career to not sign a contract in order to protect someone [you] they don't know? How about you try and protect your contract and prevent the inferior contract becoming available in the first place? This view point is symptomatic of a weak bodied pilot community who always want to pass the buck. Same goes for the argument of relying on others leaving a company in order to force the company to improve terms. I'd say if a contract is available then it's fair game... |
This is a stupid view point. You're expecting a pilot who may be unemployed or looking to further their career to not sign a contract in order to protect someone [you] they don't know? How about you try and protect your contract and prevent the inferior contract becoming available in the first place? This view point is symptomatic of a weak bodied pilot community who always want to pass the buck. Same goes for the argument of relying on others leaving a company in order to force the company to improve terms. I'd say if a contract is available then it's fair game... |
There are plenty of SC pilots who are tired of subsidizing expat B pilots while the latter continue to f##k over the former. A fairer way forward would be for expat B to take an overall freeze in pay and financial benefits allowing all increases to go to SC. |
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