Bell: Based in HK or not, the AOA app will list the existing members.

AOA app?? Not in the HKAOA.

I'm not in the HKAOA either, but my AOA app works just fine.

One would assume that this deal will get a resounding NO vote. Assuming that is the outcome, surely the next step (whilst maintaining the current CC/TB) is to continue to negotiate for a better deal for all. That includes getting rid of CoS18. That document is the end of CX as a long term employer and the end of the AoA (no need for any form of negotiations for those that join on it).

Priorities (in no particular order): Withdrawal of CoS18, pay, housing and getting rid of HKPA at some point in a career. Even those who arrive with literally nothing are eventually as qualified as the next guy. At what point that is may be debatable but eventually a HKPA recipient should be on a proper housing package.

When have the company come back straight away and negotiated after a failed vote? Not a rhetorical question.

I know the union has: failed 49ers deal; failed ARAPA; failed RP07 vote. All led to a second round of voting.

I doubt there will be any re negotiation any time soon.

Hiro,

If it's not good enough as a whole or even in part you should not be voting it in period. Not only does it condemn everyone else in the process. But it also handcuffs you to a deal that was inferior to begin with, but ironically sends a message to the bosses that you are happy with the crumbs they have given. Instead send a big F you to the big brains that tabled this deal and the union reps that lubed up the pineapple in terms of a recommendation! It will be up to the company to solve the problem then or chew off the airline despite the big profits coming this year. As for the union I can only hope for change.

If we capitulate on this deal, of all the crappy deals, it WILL spell the end of the AOA, and the end of CX providing what used to be considered a "career" as a pilot. Everyone needs to reflect on the facts of the deal, not the emotions. It is inadequate on ALL levels. It deserves to be voted down. We keep CC and the TB and we let the operation continue to grind slower and slower. The management can't keep that sort of bluff going much longer. There IS a better deal out there. It's only our doubt and weariness that makes us think "why bother". I'll tell you why: it's because we (and individually, YOU) are worth more. Don't allow yourselves to throw away your value, and your dignity. This offer is a complete farce. It deserves to be thrown back in managements faces.

So here we are. Having haggled for 4 years ( whilst receiving nothing and all other employess getting small but significant pay increases ) The company using every dirty tactic in it's arsenal to undermine the negotiations and unilaterally launching a completely new pay structure from Dec 2018 without even consulting the union you now want to sign away eberything you have worked for ? In any negotiation you haggle and then you final act is to walk away. We need to walk away from this one. What will the company do ? London will tell them their bluff was called and to settle so the biggest cashcow in the Swire machine can make money again.

Walk away.

The argument that you cannot comment or criticise the GC or NC unless you are actually on the GC or NC is utter nonsense!!

A fully paid member of the HKAOA has absolutely every right to be angry over what has happened. There has been a complete LACK of leadership from the President, and this has, as a whole been exceptionally poorly handled.

No member should have to 'step up' to be on the GC/NC to offer opinion on their actions. All members of the HKAOA team from the pilot body are VOLUNTEERS. No one asked them to be on the council. I'm afraid you 'live by the sword, and you die by the sword'.

You could make the same argument of politicians. Do you feel it is acceptable to criticise them when you do not agree with what they say, or would you meekly go along with whatever they want, as, hey, you're not an elected politician? Of course the pilot body has the right to criticise without being on the council!

We have to get real here guys. We have as an association failed miserably. We should all take responsibility for this, as a group of pilots, but ultimately, the Chairman and the council are responsible. I have long since felt we need professional negotiators employed full time to come up with solutions, not (albeit enthusiastic) wannabe amateur lawyers who are actually pilots!

Hang on! It's been defined as 'a turd with sprinkles'. Although, they didn't go in to specifics about what the 'turd' had been sprinkled with. :confused: