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-   -   Should I leave Brazil and go to CX? (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/616570-should-i-leave-brazil-go-cx.html)

Gustavocarvalho 22nd Dec 2018 16:01

Should I leave Brazil and go to CX?
 
Hey Guys, I’m a Commercial pilot in Brazil and I was invited to an interview.I’ve already read lots of you saying that HK it’s terrible to live and etc... but I would like to know if it would be an opportunity to get some experience in airlines? It is a second officer position based in HK. I don’t know how much you guys know about Brazil but let’s say that I’m used to live a hard life. I’m single with no kids.Looking forward to hear from you.

3RDi 22nd Dec 2018 20:06

If that's the only opportunity you have at this time then take it. Go for the interview experience. Study hard and give it your best. Should you receive a positive outcome, reassess your situation and make a final decision.

AQIS Boigu 22nd Dec 2018 20:14


Originally Posted by betpump5 (Post 10342410)
So this is the type of candidate POS 18 attracts...

At least CX can say they are a step above the favelas.

CX has been using Khayelitsha and Soweto as a benchmark for decades

Slasher1 22nd Dec 2018 22:16

If you were stuck in Venezuela I’d probably say yes.

Brazil not so much.

mngmt mole 23rd Dec 2018 02:16

Ohhhh, you are going to be SO happy when you see the "multi-cultural" varieties that CX is going to be importing over the next year or so. Some wonderful new accents for the trainers to deal with. English will soon be the minority language on the flight decks of CX.

Ecam321 23rd Dec 2018 04:09

Gustavo

Give the interview a go, come and see HK for yourself but remember if you get the job and join Cx, you will be working with white colonial racists as indicated by many of the inane replies here.

mngmt mole 23rd Dec 2018 07:43


Originally Posted by Ecam321 (Post 10342611)
Gustavo

Give the interview a go, come and see HK for yourself but remember if you get the job and join Cx, you will be working with white colonial racists as indicated by many of the inane replies here.

The lazy mans way to demonize someone: call them “racist “. (You’re not an American who votes Democrat are you ?)

gipilot 23rd Dec 2018 10:17

Heeyy our great friend RACISM
 

Originally Posted by mngmt mole (Post 10342667)


The lazy mans way to demonize someone: call them “racist “. (You’re not an American who votes Democrat are you ?)

Racists don’t like to be called racists. Just embrace your reality mngmt mole.

But back to the topic. Cx is not a bad company, like many other companies it has many negative issues and unfortunately it is not the company it used to be. So the frustrations from the pilot group is massive and that is why u get all these negative comments.

But I think u should give it a go. Try it and see for yourself, you can always go back. So just do it, man. Good luck.



ACMS 23rd Dec 2018 10:44

FBetpump5———is that the best you’ve got? ( post #2 ) I think you owe the Brazilian an apology mate. Play the Ball not the Man.

Air Profit 23rd Dec 2018 10:59


Originally Posted by gipilot (Post 10342751)


Racists don’t like to be called racists. Just embrace your reality mngmt mole.

But back to the topic. Cx is not a bad company, like many other companies it has many negative issues and unfortunately it is not the company it used to be. So the frustrations from the pilot group is massive and that is why u get all these negative comments.

But I think u should give it a go. Try it and see for yourself, you can always go back. So just do it, man. Good luck.




Gipilot. I didn't read anything that suggests MM was being racist, just him pointing out a historical fact that many people of intellectual laziness use that term as a way to demonize those that disagree with them. Just as you've done. Your comment says more about you than is does about MM.

gipilot 23rd Dec 2018 12:46

If the shoe fits
 

Originally Posted by Air Profit (Post 10342791)
Gipilot. I didn't read anything that suggests MM was being racist, just him pointing out a historical fact that many people of intellectual laziness use that term as a way to demonize those that disagree with them. Just as you've done. Your comment says more about you than is does about MM.

As I said,Air profit. Racists don't like to be called racist. Thanks for proving my point. Cx will continue being multi cultural whether you or mngmnt mole like it or not. Pfff, "intellectual laziness", is that the best you've got?

Apple Tree Yard 23rd Dec 2018 12:51

You just keep reaching for the next biggest shovel don't you Gipilot? You couldn't have proved AP's point better if you had intended to. The old saying, "better to remain silent and let them think you an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt" should be something for you to reflect on.

AtoBsafely 23rd Dec 2018 13:10

gipilot,

Have YOU read POS18?

Can you honestly say that Cathay is “not a bad company” when they ask you to sign away the few protections that Hong Kong law provide? And there are many more questions in that line.

Seriously?


nairda68 23rd Dec 2018 15:24

anything is better than a smug, Aussie accent!

Fbwdude 24th Dec 2018 01:07

Royal Family
 
Hi everyone,
It’s funny how some guys think they are better and superior to others like your highness betpump5.
Get a life man, if you don’t have anything good to say keep your mouth shot .
Gustavo you should go there and see for yourself.
Good luck .
Fbwdude

Kitsune 24th Dec 2018 10:06

Betpump5 is probably one of those called ‘the flotsam and jetsam of aviation’ by A Scalers when he was recruited... :cool:

Tea time 24th Dec 2018 11:29

The problem is ,as someone else correctly pointed out ,that by accepting a lower standard of COS the newjoiners inadvertently reinforce the management belief that the salary is too high . Back in the 80;s and early 90’s Cathay was the airline that everyone aspired to join , competition to get in was fierce and the selection process was tough. If you were lucky enough to get in, the job was great, salaries were good, COS were very adequate and the company looked after you, so no one complained and the crew were always happy to go the extra mile without being asked. It was a winning formula .
Then about 1997 the accountants got involved with senior management on how to save a few bucks , the easy target was the pilot’s salaries. There was a already a degree of jealousy from the non aviation part of the company who saw us as overpaid , underworked prima donnas , this was quietly endorsed by senior management because they never tried to quash the underlying impression.
I remember going to focus nights put on by the company where it was espoused that if we didn’t accept pay and COS cuts the company was going to go bust. This was the beginning of the industrial dispute that continues to this day .
COS 99 was imposed on the workforce with sign or be fired , then came ASL followed by B scales , people who joined on B scales and I’m not pointing fingers or blaming anyone for doing so ,sealed the fate of the original pay scales which then became known as A scales. From this point on it’s been a downward trend of COS cuts , leave reduced , flying hours increased, overtime reduced , medical cover reduced , housing reduced , the list goes on and on . Yet management managed to squander $4 plus billion on a lousy fuel hedge and no one is called to account , so I have to ponder who was on the other side of the fuel hedge .
Then came C scales and finally COS 18 , so again if pilots join on COS 18 it will erode B scales even further .
What I am trying to point out is that none of the comments are truly racist, that term is a slight used frequently by the left when they cannot win an argument using logic and want to shut someone up .
It’s about pilots from other parts of the world be it South America, South Africa , South Asia who find themselves living in worse conditions than the perceived conditions offered by Cathay, and who are willing to take the offer not fully realising that by doing so they are degrading the COS of those pilots already employed .
This creates a natural resentment towards these new hires fostered by many years of industrial unrest , hence some of the comments here.
May I wish everyone a very Happy Christmas and New Year , I look forward to contributing in 2019

gipilot 24th Dec 2018 16:23

Tea Time

“What I am trying to point out is that none of the comments are truly racist, that term is a slight used frequently by the left when they cannot win an argument using logic and want to shut someone up.” Please TEA TIME , show me the arguments included in their comments, since you’re talking about arguments. None right? Thought so.

Not “truly” racist just slightly. Not “truly” 10 degrees but slightly. Not “TRULY” a fact but slightly. Racists do not like to be called racist, do you understand now? Especially how all of you suddenly crawl right out of your rocks to defend “NOT TRULY” racist comment.

Back to the point.

I have read POS18 and I somewhat can understand the emotions by some of you but when it comes to these new hires the question is , do you know how bad aviation is OUTSIDE of CX? Everyone talks as if in the US or EU, EVERYTHING is better than CX. Well it’s not, not even with POS18. Do any of you have any knowledge of how tough the EU FTL’s are? Or average salaries there? Taxes? etc etc. So you can imagine how they are in South America or Africa.

This business of being pissed at new hires for taking a package is ridiculous. What do they have to do with the dispute between the AoA and management. So are you now telling me that you will be pissed at the guys that took COS99? Then pissed at the c scalers? Than pissed at cos18 guys? Come on, have you nothing to do in life?

Point is many of you should start accepting that Cx is not the company it once was and it will never be that again. Cx is NOT a career airline but more of a stepping stone for pilots. Why would you get yourself worked up for that? You don’t have a say in it? That is how the management wants it to be, so be it. Quit whining.

And to the none elitists here, Merry Christmas and wish you all a happy New Year with lots of blessings and especially Health. Cheers guys.


Kitsune 24th Dec 2018 18:10


Originally Posted by Tea time (Post 10343648)
The problem is ,as someone else correctly pointed out ,that by accepting a lower standard of COS the newjoiners inadvertently reinforce the management belief that the salary is too high . Back in the 80;s and early 90’s Cathay was the airline that everyone aspired to join , competition to get in was fierce and the selection process was tough. If you were lucky enough to get in, the job was great, salaries were good, COS were very adequate and the company looked after you, so no one complained and the crew were always happy to go the extra mile without being asked. It was a winning formula .
Then about 1997 the accountants got involved with senior management on how to save a few bucks , the easy target was the pilot’s salaries. There was a already a degree of jealousy from the non aviation part of the company who saw us as overpaid , underworked prima donnas , this was quietly endorsed by senior management because they never tried to quash the underlying impression.
I remember going to focus nights put on by the company where it was espoused that if we didn’t accept pay and COS cuts the company was going to go bust. This was the beginning of the industrial dispute that continues to this day .
COS 99 was imposed on the workforce with sign or be fired , then came ASL followed by B scales , people who joined on B scales and I’m not pointing fingers or blaming anyone for doing so ,sealed the fate of the original pay scales which then became known as A scales. From this point on it’s been a downward trend of COS cuts , leave reduced , flying hours increased, overtime reduced , medical cover reduced , housing reduced , the list goes on and on . Yet management managed to squander $4 plus billion on a lousy fuel hedge and no one is called to account , so I have to ponder who was on the other side of the fuel hedge .
Then came C scales and finally COS 18 , so again if pilots join on COS 18 it will erode B scales even further .
What I am trying to point out is that none of the comments are truly racist, that term is a slight used frequently by the left when they cannot win an argument using logic and want to shut someone up .
It’s about pilots from other parts of the world be it South America, South Africa , South Asia who find themselves living in worse conditions than the perceived conditions offered by Cathay, and who are willing to take the offer not fully realising that by doing so they are degrading the COS of those pilots already employed .
This creates a natural resentment towards these new hires fostered by many years of industrial unrest , hence some of the comments here.
May I wish everyone a very Happy Christmas and New Year , I look forward to contributing in 2019

Probably inconvenient for you to remember, but I well remember in 1994 when GC was DFO and B scales were proposed the HKAOA as ‘twas then did its best to oppose the reduction in terms and conditions... I was at some of those discussions. We were utterly undermined by the fact that numerous pilots had already been recruited on the lower B scale conditions... and by the Captains at the time finding it difficult to believe that anyone could live in HKG on the B scale package. It’s a bit rich for those who came to CX on a reduced package to now slag off those doing exactly the same for their own reasons. It’s perhaps also worth remembering that the A Scalers were actually about to go on strike before the Company caved in in, I think, 1989. No guts, no glory.

Gustavocarvalho 24th Dec 2018 18:27

Ok Guys, let me clear up two things here.
First, I do not live in the favelas but I do respect who lives there.
Second, I am not black like most people here think I am, but I do respect everybody’s race.
Another thing, why do you think that I not good enough to work at CX?

Tea time 25th Dec 2018 00:05

Seriously gipilot ? I can’t be bothered to argue with you , believe what you will

Kitsune , I remember it very well , I was A scale so there was no inconvenience

ACMS 25th Dec 2018 02:00

Gusta.......

its just that CX ain’t good enough for you or anyone else joining on the new COS18.

its crap.

run away fast as you can mate.

Whatthef 25th Dec 2018 02:30


Originally Posted by Tea time (Post 10343648)
The problem is ,as someone else correctly pointed out ,that by accepting a lower standard of COS the newjoiners inadvertently reinforce the management belief that the salary is too high . Back in the 80;s and early 90’s Cathay was the airline that everyone aspired to join , competition to get in was fierce and the selection process was tough. If you were lucky enough to get in, the job was great, salaries were good, COS were very adequate and the company looked after you, so no one complained and the crew were always happy to go the extra mile without being asked. It was a winning formula .
Then about 1997 the accountants got involved with senior management on how to save a few bucks , the easy target was the pilot’s salaries. There was a already a degree of jealousy from the non aviation part of the company who saw us as overpaid , underworked prima donnas , this was quietly endorsed by senior management because they never tried to quash the underlying impression.
I remember going to focus nights put on by the company where it was espoused that if we didn’t accept pay and COS cuts the company was going to go bust. This was the beginning of the industrial dispute that continues to this day .
COS 99 was imposed on the workforce with sign or be fired , then came ASL followed by B scales , people who joined on B scales and I’m not pointing fingers or blaming anyone for doing so ,sealed the fate of the original pay scales which then became known as A scales. From this point on it’s been a downward trend of COS cuts , leave reduced , flying hours increased, overtime reduced , medical cover reduced , housing reduced , the list goes on and on . Yet management managed to squander $4 plus billion on a lousy fuel hedge and no one is called to account , so I have to ponder who was on the other side of the fuel hedge .
Then came C scales and finally COS 18 , so again if pilots join on COS 18 it will erode B scales even further .
What I am trying to point out is that none of the comments are truly racist, that term is a slight used frequently by the left when they cannot win an argument using logic and want to shut someone up .
It’s about pilots from other parts of the world be it South America, South Africa , South Asia who find themselves living in worse conditions than the perceived conditions offered by Cathay, and who are willing to take the offer not fully realising that by doing so they are degrading the COS of those pilots already employed .
This creates a natural resentment towards these new hires fostered by many years of industrial unrest , hence some of the comments here.
May I wish everyone a very Happy Christmas and New Year , I look forward to contributing in 2019

Tea time, I reckon you are on the money. But, during your time in the '80s, there weren't as many pilots as there are now. Demand exceeded supply and hence, your package was enviably better. These days, there are countless flight 'schools' all over the planet, which are churning pilots on a regular basis. Consequently, supply has exceeded demand which has inevitably led to the degradation of T&Cs at virtually all airlines, not just at CX.
Had there been an endless supply of pilots back in the '80s like there is now, you would have seen CoS 18 back in the '80s itself!
Merry Christmas and happy 2019!

BalusKaptan 25th Dec 2018 04:56

Come over, do the interview. You have read the comments here. See what you think are valid or not. Make contact with some who are here, AOA would give you some contacts. Do you OWN research into the cost of living. You have heard others comments so will know what areas in particular to look at. Price up groceries, visit the real estate agents, view some flats etc.
Interestingly enough some years back CX tried recruiting the likes of Pakistanis as the CX pay translated to US$ was streets ahead of that in Pakistan. Many looked and ALL chose not to come based on the cost of living and life style which was much better in their home country than in HKG.

poydras 25th Dec 2018 08:15


Originally Posted by Gustavocarvalho (Post 10343881)
Ok Guys, let me clear up two things here.
First, I do not live in the favelas but I do respect who lives there.
Second, I am not black like most people here think I am, but I do respect everybody’s race.
Another thing, why do you think that I not good enough to work at CX?

Buen dia Gustavo.
el problema Aqui eres que la ciudad de HK eres muy muy cara. La compania te vas a pagar El tanto por pagar la casa. Si tu entiendes ganar esperiencia por un periodo esta bien. HK eres una ciudad muy dinamica però jo pienso que no eres adapta por latinos.
Ok enough with my crappy Portugues, read what
Tea time wrote and meditate on it.
Tchau

mngmt mole 25th Dec 2018 08:44


Originally Posted by gipilot (Post 10343824)
Tea Time

“What I am trying to point out is that none of the comments are truly racist, that term is a slight used frequently by the left when they cannot win an argument using logic and want to shut someone up.” Please TEA TIME , show me the arguments included in their comments, since you’re talking about arguments. None right? Thought so.

Not “truly” racist just slightly. Not “truly” 10 degrees but slightly. Not “TRULY” a fact but slightly. Racists do not like to be called racist, do you understand now? Especially how all of you suddenly crawl right out of your rocks to defend “NOT TRULY” racist comment.

Back to the point.

I have read POS18 and I somewhat can understand the emotions by some of you but when it comes to these new hires the question is , do you know how bad aviation is OUTSIDE of CX? Everyone talks as if in the US or EU, EVERYTHING is better than CX. Well it’s not, not even with POS18. Do any of you have any knowledge of how tough the EU FTL’s are? Or average salaries there? Taxes? etc etc. So you can imagine how they are in South America or Africa.

This business of being pissed at new hires for taking a package is ridiculous. What do they have to do with the dispute between the AoA and management. So are you now telling me that you will be pissed at the guys that took COS99? Then pissed at the c scalers? Than pissed at cos18 guys? Come on, have you nothing to do in life?

Point is many of you should start accepting that Cx is not the company it once was and it will never be that again. Cx is NOT a career airline but more of a stepping stone for pilots. Why would you get yourself worked up for that? You don’t have a say in it? That is how the management wants it to be, so be it. Quit whining.

And to the none elitists here, Merry Christmas and wish you all a happy New Year with lots of blessings and especially Health. Cheers guys.



gopilot. You are one very sad individual. Keep throwing that “racist” word around. Wow, the liberal mind at its worst. Keep digging my friend.

(and btw, you sound just like a management cubicle bottom dweller)

Slasher1 25th Dec 2018 11:26

When based pilots are dumping a decade or two of seniority and leaving in droves for greener and happier pastures I think that just about says it all.

Ya can’t fix stupid. Ya can’t fix someone who is hell bent on ignoring the advice of people who have been there. Sometimes ya just gotta let them tumble down the stairs themselves to figure out it hurts.

FWIW I have never worked in a place where people were less happy than this one — at least over the past few years. The only way to look at it IMHO is more from the outside or at a distance and not let it drag you along into it. And if you haven’t bolted already be ready to do so tomorrow. In this light it can actually be fun but you do have to keep your distance.

The thing I do not accept or want to hear is any bitching from folks who joined in the last several years. You have no excuses and knew or should have known exactly what you were getting into.

starvingpilot 5th Jan 2019 03:35

Hong Kong and Cathay are a toxic (literally and figuratively) environment that will suck the joy out of your life - you only have to read the comments above to see the sort of sad, bitter individuals this toxicity creates. Without substantial financial rewards (which are no longer there), it simply isn’t worth selling your happiness and that of your family for this insanely overpriced, soul destroying, polluted dump - many on much better packages than you will be offered have come to the same conclusion and left.

unitedabx 5th Jan 2019 05:20


Originally Posted by Gustavocarvalho (Post 10342314)
Hey Guys, I’m a Commercial pilot in Brazil and I was invited to an interview.I’ve already read lots of you saying that HK it’s terrible to live and etc... but I would like to know if it would be an opportunity to get some experience in airlines? It is a second officer position based in HK. I don’t know how much you guys know about Brazil but let’s say that I’m used to live a hard life. I’m single with no kids.Looking forward to hear from you.


I am assuming you don't qualify for our direct entry FO positions ?So with no baggage such as a wife and kids give the interview a chance and take sometime to take a look at HKG. Go into a supermarket ( there are only 2 competing companies in HKG ) and compare prices. Expect 4-5 times what you would pay in Brazil. Housing. Expect to share a 500 square foot apartment with another SO. Social life. With no kids or wife, generally good. Work. Toxic environment. Unhappy workforce from check in to pilots. Incompetent managers and a colonial board of directors motivated by greed. CX used to look good on any CV but now the word is out and a move here could be a blight on any future employment.
If I were you, I would build my hours in Brazil and then apply to the Mid East airlines as an FO. Though not perfect a much better long term opportunity. Good Luck and safe flying.

Lepo 5th Jan 2019 05:28

Hello Gustavo,

Opinion from a fellow brazilian:

- Go for the interview and see things with your own eyes. Take a look at what HK is like, learn as much as you can about Cathay Pacific, look at the cost of living, lifestyle and what are the terms and conditions offered by the company. Once you PASS the interview and get a real job offer in your hands you can weight the pros and cons and think about going or not, but for now just do the interview.
- Try to find brazilians who are currently flying for HK based airlines, like HK Airlines, HK Express, and of course CX. Talk and learn as much as you can from them. They come from the same background as you and can provide a less biased opinion than people who grew up in Europe, Australia or US. There are a lot of brazilians currently flying in Hong Kong.
- I don't know your level of experience or if you're currently employed in Brazil, but if you're flying for a brazilian airline I think you should also look for positions as a first officer in other airlines around the world.

If you have any doubt send me a PM.

Abraços

Backupnav 5th Jan 2019 09:49


Originally Posted by Gustavocarvalho (Post 10342314)
Hey Guys, I’m a Commercial pilot in Brazil and I was invited to an interview.I’ve already read lots of you saying that HK it’s terrible to live and etc... but I would like to know if it would be an opportunity to get some experience in airlines? It is a second officer position based in HK. I don’t know how much you guys know about Brazil but let’s say that I’m used to live a hard life. I’m single with no kids.Looking forward to hear from you.

Yes, come here quick, you will have a blast. Especially if air pollution is your thing. Check the Hong Kong Air Quality Index for the day.

mngmt mole 5th Jan 2019 10:04

The worst ive seen in several years. Cat 2 approaches today because of “haze” 🥺


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