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-   -   HKAOS Membership update 3 Nov 18 (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/615045-hkaos-membership-update-3-nov-18-a.html)

Liam Gallagher 4th Nov 2018 09:09

HKAOA's Membership update 3 Nov 18
Reading that update reminded me of the old tale of the guy who went into the used car lot and his opening line to the spiv salesman was, "My wife absolutely loves the car, I must buy it, what's your best price?"ŵ

NC (whether that's the Negotiating Commitee or Numero Crunch, I dunno), for the sake of everything's that holy perhaps your dignity or even your own rectal integrity;- PLEASE STOP... STANDOWN... REST.... WALK AWAY.... PLEASE.

We all know Management is as trustworthy as gas station sushi, so you can hardly be surprised they are now reversing out of agreed positions. But in many ways the HKAOA has invited this. You are chasing this deal way too hard and you have been negotiating with yourselves for some months, Your desperation oozes out of every HKAOA update. I am sure you mean well, but you are no longer respresenting the members, This is not democracy. The parts you have agreed are so far from what the membership wants, not only are these negotiations doomed, but you have undermined any future negotiations. You have become the playthings of management. PLEASE STOP.

1. During HPE the Company smiled at the table, whilst introducing "double SO". Your response was to unzip your trousers and offer concessions.
2. During the recent talks, you have agreed to buy back ARAPA and RP07 and offered a zero % pay rise in return for HKPA similar to COS18 new joiners. That is meagre. However, management sense they could take you for more and introduced COS18, which demands new joiners are no longer represented by the HKAOA (ie you). Your response to this massive biatch-slap was to drop your unzipped trousers and bend over the table.
3. Impasse was declared, however rather than grab your trousers and run, you proposed drafting the sh!t sandwich into a "contract"!!. Are you mad? Are you surprised they have now come at you with " the mother of Clause 7", when you swallowed the motherload called COS18?

HPE was embarrassing, this is now bordering on self-harm. If this was a boxing match, the referee would have stopped it many rounds ago. If this were a dog, someone would have called the RSPCA months ago. This is why we teach our daughters not to date pilots.


DessertRat 4th Nov 2018 09:20

Rod FFS please stand again

Farman Biplane 4th Nov 2018 09:34

And all this locked up behind closed doors because of the GFBFA that the HKAOA insisted upon!

If there is agreement on ARAPA and RPís then why not present the agreements and put them to a vote individually?

Madness, spelt with a capital HKAOAGFBFAHPE......

Frogman1484 4th Nov 2018 11:01

Walk Away...Its turning out to be a fiasco!!!!!

illtellyouhowitis 4th Nov 2018 12:20

I hope you muppets that voted for DS bow your heads in shame.

RF was the only leader we had that fought back and pissed the management off.

main_dog 4th Nov 2018 12:31

Appeasement does not work with this bunch.

Some How I'm Tired 4th Nov 2018 14:12

Good Faith Bargaining Agreement fiasco
It seems to me that since this GFBA has been introduced, the Company has used it as a tool to totally overrun the HKAOA NC. It appears that this is the root of all problems when it comes to taking our gloves off. It ties up our NC for YEARS whilst we have to exhaust all possible options.

Isnít it about time we as the AOA were proactive and unleashed ourselves from a one sided agreement? Why donít we do what the Company regularly does and unilaterally cancel this pathetic agreement?

Untie our hands. Let us take the gloves off. Walk away from all Ďnegotiationsí. Enough is enough.

illtellyouhowitis 4th Nov 2018 14:36

I find my colleagues quite pathetic, sorry to be direct but as a collective body, we are a disgrace. RF kicked them in the guts, then most of you all voted for DS, his wishy washy actions have been a complete waste of time. No 13th month, we write a letter on yammer, they must have pissed themselves laughing.

They wanted to change hotel in KIX and reduce the allowances, the girls got angry and they changed it back to the original hotel in a heartbeat. Can you imagine what would have happened if they said no 13th month for just the ISMs???? I'll let you all answer that.

I'm fed up with all the bitching, enough FFS.

shortly2 4th Nov 2018 16:01

Actually this could relate to the AOA or Cathay Pacific. You start to cheer up because surely things couldn't possibly be worse, then sure enough things get worse.

Samsonite 4th Nov 2018 16:56

ITYHII,, Really you are a RF supporter? RF is the reason the HKAOA is in the position it is because he sunk the deal in 2016!!!! Now HKAOA is trying to claw everything back that was good in that TA but unfortunately company is playing the financial times card and dont want to give anything back.

illtellyouhowitis 4th Nov 2018 17:15

Samsonite, Are you telling me then you're a DS supporter?....If so, how's he doing???

illtellyouhowitis 4th Nov 2018 19:16

Originally Posted by Samsonite (Post 10301455)
ITYHII,, Really you are a RF supporter? RF is the reason the HKAOA is in the position it is because he sunk the deal in 2016!!!! Now HKAOA is trying to claw everything back that was good in that TA but unfortunately company is playing the financial times card and dont want to give anything back.

All that was good in the last TA, what are you smoking. If that TA had gone though, you think the company wouldn't have come after just about everything we have and we wouldn't have been able to fight back because your great TA said we couldn't fight back because of the wonderful clause written in it. So you wanted a little scap and thought that was good..You come across as someone who is happy with negotiating back something they took from us.

unitedabx 4th Nov 2018 23:18

Aer Lingus captains turning down Euro5000 per G day callout and an extra 10 days leave. And the HKAOA are still talking to the company about cuts. Ridiculous. RESIGN.

betpump5 4th Nov 2018 23:24

Anyone who is using Hindsight to suggest TA2016 should have gone through needs to go to the Funny Farm pronto.
WTF?? Seriously??? Samsonite I wouldn't put you in charge of a tumble dryer let alone an aircraft.

RF did the right thing in not making a song and dance about TA16. Company wanted it - its up to them to sell it to us. Not him.

Samsonite 5th Nov 2018 01:31

ITYHII, Oh so you admit TA 2016 was good because and now you state the company would have come after everything we got so we should have took it, right? Once it was inlace even RP's were back in our contract and not company policy unlike the position we sit in now..

The famous clause 7 that basically every western world has in their Labour Laws that creates labour peace between 2 parties for a certain period of time!!! Oh ya that one!!

How is your contract now Betpump and do you seriously think you are gonna get a better deal now when the company has just gone through the 2 worst financial years in their history?? You better open up your eyes, use your brain and quit following the Magenta line.

arse 5th Nov 2018 03:37

Dear Samonsite. I know you are scared. It's OK. It's a natural reaction. Take a deep breath. What caused the two worst financial years in Cathay's history. Yes, you right ... the fuel hedging debacle. Would that be a great opportunity to cry poor and start cost cutting? Would those cuts have far-reaching effects, beyond the fuel hedging? Of course. Patience dear chap. Patience. May I politely suggest, that before you tell people to open their eyes, that you return your company issued blinkers!

Farman Biplane 5th Nov 2018 04:23

Samson, HK has nothing like the workplace protections and laws in those 1st world countries where an industrial peace clause might be an acceptable part of a negotiated deal.

Oasis 5th Nov 2018 05:13

The company is under pressure to get us to sign into concessions while we are in the red, once we do we will be stuck with it while the company is happily making huge profits again.

Delay delay delay, Itís only going to get better...

kenfoggo 5th Nov 2018 06:32

The HKAO is wallowing in a desperate period of inaction. They cannot even police and enforce their own Training Ban so do not expect anything other than what has happened over the last two years, which is Nothing.

illtellyouhowitis 5th Nov 2018 06:50


After reading your replies, you have made it perfectly clear that you can't fix stupid.

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