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-   -   COS18 (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/613246-cos18.html)

Karrupted 12th Sep 2018 11:53

Easy.
Group-wide training ban, wef 01Dec18 (the day CoS18 becomes effective).
Anything less and we will be complicit in the destruction of our profession.
It really is that simple.

K.

mngmt mole 12th Sep 2018 12:14

A travesty. A sick joke and an affront on our profession. Anyone who isnt now planning on leaving deserves what they get. Its hard to comprehend how far this airline has fallen. Tragic.

Gnadenburg 12th Sep 2018 12:28


Originally Posted by unitedabx (Post 10247297)
Email from DFO last Wednesday and it was discussed in the week before the KA pay deal was agreed. Hence the rush to sign it you knew what was coming. Don't deny it.

What are you on about? On refection, the only heads up the KA guys may have had is the resignation of our Head of Training a few weeks ago ( sorry I don't know his correct title ). DPA found out today or just recently? I think we are in this together.

This is a brave counter-attack by the company that will only work if CX and KA pilots are truly routed.

STW 12th Sep 2018 12:31

mngmt mole, are you saying you are now escalating from seriously looking to planning to leave?

mngmt mole 12th Sep 2018 13:40

14 month from retirement STW. But I recieved your fatuous comment for the mindless value it represented. Perhaps you might want to comment on the value of the CX career to those under the age of 45? Ie: "0"

STW 12th Sep 2018 13:51

My point is people will still join and enough of us will stay.

I suggest to finally get on with it and sign the offered deal. It will not get better, we already lost 5% because unfortunately nobody listened to me. If we don't it will get even worse.


mngmt mole 12th Sep 2018 13:54

Interesting way to "make your point" STW. I believe you are the only one who understands your cleverness.

STW 12th Sep 2018 14:00

Achievements during CC and training ban ( as we speak):

- no 5 % pay increase
- no 2 year housing deal
- no HKPA increase
- closure of MAN
- no more basings
- D scale

mngmt mole 12th Sep 2018 14:06

Then attack the company and not your fellow pilots. Seriously...:rolleyes:

STW 12th Sep 2018 14:24

Fair point. My apologies, it was meamt as a joke about pilots who seem to talk a lot about leaving but never do. Nothing personal.

mngmt mole 12th Sep 2018 14:27

STW, many pilots ARE leaving (and COS 18 will turbocharge that trend). Let's put this one to bed shall we? (btw, I see you "are new here", "0" posts....otherwise known as management. Thanks for suggesting we should just "get on with it and sign the new deal". Are management really getting this desperate?)

Flying Clog 12th Sep 2018 15:27

This really is Cathay on it's death bed. The airline is completely screwed, and short term cost-cutting will kill it off completely.

Who in THEIR RIGHT MINDS would accept these terms knowing the cost of living and career prospect implications in Hong Kong?

Only one group - South African refugees. That's who this **** jellyfish is catering for, that much is clear. A slight increase in HKPA, overseas kid's education, commute to SA with the low cost of living, simples, come on over, the water is lovely.

NOW is the time to enact a group wide training ban, KA and CX. I should think a recruitment ban. Or maybe even a full on strike. Most of us don't care anymore.

Biggest mistake I ever made joining this sh!t shower of an airline.

Will IB Fayed 12th Sep 2018 15:47


Who in THEIR RIGHT MINDS would accept these terms knowing the cost of living and career prospect implications in Hong Kong?
lol, the same thing was said a few years ago. Trust me, the spikey haired brigade (MKII) will turn up and pay for their training.....

Gaisha 12th Sep 2018 16:21

Industrial action is the only method that KA should look to enforcing. Two airlines in CC, although not the end of the world for them, would certainly show the public that things are bleak across the entire group. Time to find your balls fellas. Seems you lost them a few months ago when you voted YES to 0%! The only way of redeeming yourselves is to convince the sympathisers amongst your lot that GOOD WILL goes unnoticed and exposes your weaknessesss. They will try and convince you that it’s only applicable to new joiners but they have effectively eliminated any possibility of an improvement on current contracts. The trainers are the backbone of their plan. They will decide the fate of this company.

cxorcist 12th Sep 2018 17:07

What’s obvious to me is that this new package will further lower the operating and experience standards among SOs and FOs. Over time, this will bleed into the captain ranks. This is what C&Ters should be really concerned about. Will it be your name on the certificate and file of these pilots when the inevitable accident occurs? Honestly, do you want that on your conscience? Take the industrial out of it. Are you actually willing to lower yourself this way? If the answer is yes, then you are no better than any of those pilot and non-pilot managers working on the third and ninth floors.

GTC58 12th Sep 2018 17:12

Bases are dead too. No point in having to comply with labour laws, when someone can have really cheap pilots in Hong Kong. Next NTC, early retirement packages to get more pilots on D scale.

unitedabx 12th Sep 2018 18:55

The company will have done it's homework and there will be hundreds who will apply even on COS18. All this was said about D Scalers and there are hundreds of them flying with us now. If you live in a country with a surplus of pilots and a passport that limits your travels then Hong Kong is one rare opportunity to get out and fly jets. For others they can get their pilots wings and live with mum and dad back in HKG so the cost of living isn't a factor. A recruitment ban. How's that going to work? CX does the recruitment not the AOA. A training ban ? Even AOA members have ignored that directive with absolutely no penalties applied. 4 more members moving up to STC on the A fleet this week alone. With Jet and Air India bankrupt there are thousands of pilots looking for a lifeline and the proposed starting FO pay scale is DOUBLE a Jet Airways captains pay. The sub continent will supply the pilots CX needs and miraculously bases will be offered in Mumbai and Delhi for Indian passport holders only ( of course ). Others talk of strike action. Never in a million years will that happen here. KA is being absorbed and will exist for AOC purposes only within 3 years. The task set by the Board to the new DFO is to merge the seniority lists by the end of his tenure. COS18 is phase 1. KA and CX pilots to act as one body. Really. When the CX captains were denied their 13th month did we see the KA pilots suggest a united front.No way. They took their money and banked it. KA pilots are on their own. The kid gloves are off and their cosy "flying club" is no more. They now face the full wrath of CX management and it will be lambs to the slaughter. This is the reality we find ourselves in.

Kitsune 12th Sep 2018 19:13

The sound of all those ‘B’ Scale pigeons coming home to roost must be deafening... the very same guys who undermined the ‘A’ Scale contract (after all, the company told us that they’d already recruited an entire year’s pilot requirement on the contract that we wouldn’t even contemplate) now whine and bleat about the very same thing happening to them, as we told them at the time. Suck it up.

unitedabx 12th Sep 2018 19:16


Originally Posted by Kitsune (Post 10247673)
The sound of all those ‘B’ Scale pigeons coming home to roost must be deafening... the very same guys who undermined the ‘A’ Scale contract (after all, the company told us that they’d already recruited an entire year’s pilot requirement on the contract that we wouldn’t even contemplate) now whine and bleat about the very same thing happening to them, as we told them at the time. Suck it up.

Kitsune you are so right.

Avinthenews 12th Sep 2018 19:33

A recent point raised this morning, IS IT OVER?

Either the AOA takes positive action or we simply become a membership with insurance benifits.

Are the laws in Hong Kong simply beyond western rules?


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