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-   -   HNA going down? (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/610224-hna-going-down.html)

Freehills 6th Jul 2018 05:17

Related, now that HKE has been reasonably well established as an LCC, the owners have taken back control, with the expat management team all now replaced by HNA lifers

morningcoffee 6th Jul 2018 08:24


Originally Posted by mngmt mole (Post 10189821)
No one will train that demographic under those circumstances. Regardless, HKA isnt going anywhere.

Debt’s up another 22% this year, debt to asset ratio (if you’re dumb enough to believe the company figures) has sailed past 60%. Asset values of what’s pawned so far aren’t close to book values.
They're asking their own staff to buy shares in it to prop it up.
Isn’t going anywhere?

Apple Tree Yard 6th Jul 2018 08:58

You wish MC, you wish. That would be a CX management wet dream. Regardless, all you would accomplish is replacing the current CX pilots with their pilots. Pushes your eventual armageddon off by about 18 months. Nothing will save CX from their current feckless, clueless and vacuous management, which you are playing your own "useful idiot" part to an oscar winning level no doubt.

morningcoffee 10th Jul 2018 01:47


Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard (Post 10189969)
You wish MC, you wish. That would be a CX management wet dream. Regardless, all you would accomplish is replacing the current CX pilots with their pilots. Pushes your eventual armageddon off by about 18 months. Nothing will save CX from their current feckless, clueless and vacuous management, which you are playing your own "useful idiot" part to an oscar winning level no doubt.

So your financial and investment acumen tells you that it’s financial situation is looking wonderful? Or you’re maybe not as sharp as you think you are? Can I sell you a bridge?

Apple Tree Yard 10th Jul 2018 02:35

MC. What on earth are you blabbering on about? Nowhere in that post did I say the "financial situation is looking wonderful". I said that regardless, nothing that happens with HKA will help your incompetent management for long. You and your kind have driven this airline into the ground, and it's sadly amusing that you have come to believe that the only "salvation" for crewing the aircraft is the hopeful failure of a local competitor. That says about all that needs saying regarding the Swire "vision" for the future. Ironically, not even that event would really make any difference in the long run, as you will be spending most of your time desperately trying to lie and deceive the naive young inexperienced pilots you managed to con into joining, while at the same time the flood gates of resignations are open wide. The ONLY thing that will help this company is if there was a wholesale replacement of the spent force called Swire, and outside, fresh thinking and enlightened management comes in with new ideas, and a fresh vision. We all know that won't happen. One day the Swires will be sitting in their boardroom in London wondering just where it all went wrong for the once great airline called CX, not having even the slightest insight into their own key part in the tragedy they will have then wreaked on the airline and it's staff. You, and the rest of the Swire culture is toxic. You only succeeded due to a monopoly position, and now that the winds of competition are beginning to blow, you are clueless. Ultimately, it will be on your/Swire shoulders. Of course, you'll still be blaming the pilots, even then.

morningcoffee 11th Jul 2018 04:02


Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard (Post 10192924)
MC. What on earth are you blabbering on about? Nowhere in that post did I say the "financial situation is looking wonderful". I said that regardless, nothing that happens with HKA will help your incompetent management for long. You and your kind have driven this airline into the ground, and it's sadly amusing that you have come to believe that the only "salvation" for crewing the aircraft is the hopeful failure of a local competitor. That says about all that needs saying regarding the Swire "vision" for the future. Ironically, not even that event would really make any difference in the long run, as you will be spending most of your time desperately trying to lie and deceive the naive young inexperienced pilots you managed to con into joining, while at the same time the flood gates of resignations are open wide. The ONLY thing that will help this company is if there was a wholesale replacement of the spent force called Swire, and outside, fresh thinking and enlightened management comes in with new ideas, and a fresh vision. We all know that won't happen. One day the Swires will be sitting in their boardroom in London wondering just where it all went wrong for the once great airline called CX, not having even the slightest insight into their own key part in the tragedy they will have then wreaked on the airline and it's staff. You, and the rest of the Swire culture is toxic. You only succeeded due to a monopoly position, and now that the winds of competition are beginning to blow, you are clueless. Ultimately, it will be on your/Swire shoulders. Of course, you'll still be blaming the pilots, even then.

FFS. A previous poster said HNA isn't going anywhere. The thread was Titled "HNA going down" it was about HNA and its financial state. Analysts say financially it doesn't look good. A poster (management mole) said that was incorrect and he/she knew more than all the analysts put together. I asked if they could elaborate. You want to talk about something else, perhaps start your own thread.
"New ideas and fresh vision" Sounds rosy, throw in pink unicorns and houses made of candy.
Any thoughts on what this might actually be? If you don't have any then you don't understand the aviation market and if you don't understand the aviation market then why do you comment? Sadly every analyst and consultant (I stopped reading after 23 reports/insights) says there is one main expense that needs to be reduced to increase profitability. You're not going to like what it is.
Any chance you could offer one viable alternative for all the "tricked into joining" new joiners out there? Every S/O I fly with is sick of some old guy telling him CX is terrible when in actual fact they are clueless about the job alternatives. What alternatives?

shortly2 11th Jul 2018 04:05

Good post MC. A word of advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys. Make your own decisions based on your own requirements.

OK4Wire 11th Jul 2018 05:08


advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys
Are you saying you are old, but not senior?

So MC should listen to you, but ignore senior guys who are not old?

Flex88 11th Jul 2018 07:39

A word of Advice ?
 

Originally Posted by shortly2 (Post 10193913)
Good post MC. A word of advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys. Make your own decisions based on your own requirements.

Don't listen to "Senior Guys" ??
You mean the guys who know the cost of living in HK, the guys who know what CX has and is still doing to COS over 25+ years, the guys who have first hand experience of what lengths CX will go to to regarding "stripping" (often called "enhancements")of now and future benefits...

shortly2 is bereft of any common sense whatsoever and being disingenuous. If you don't solicit information from those with past experience you then make poor decisions because you lack insight and knowledge of the situation..

Don't listen to shortly2... !!
Listen and get information from everyone or pay the price by making misinformed decisions for you and your family.

Farman Biplane 12th Jul 2018 11:34

“There are a lot of ex-CX crew and office staff at these airlines and highly doubt they would go back there...”

until they have to pay their next ridiculous HK monthly rental payment and then they will accept their job back at CX on less than when they left....

cxorcist 12th Jul 2018 17:57

Someday, CX might learn that putting a constant squeeze on the employees doesn’t make for a very good airline. CX should be pressing vendors and suppliers for lower prices, not employees. CX does just the opposite, pouring overpriced services by Swire entities into the airline and haranguing their employees. Duh!!!

Apple Tree Yard 13th Jul 2018 01:46

Well, after 25 yrs of the constant squeeze, i'm not so sure Swire will wake up to the obvious. In fact, evidence to date suggests that they never wake up to anything (other than their own bonuses). They certainly are proving to be incapable of running an airline in a competitive environment. Product, quality, marketing, innovation...every single area they are lacking in. There is no hope for CX unless it is sold and the Swire's are eradicated from our management.

Freehills 13th Jul 2018 02:17

Airbus faces a logjam of undelivered A330 jets worth well over $1 billion for airlines affiliated to China's debt-laden HNA Group following a stand-off over late payments. Companies belonging to the Chinese conglomerate have delayed payments for several months, leading Airbus to withdraw deliveries rather than step in to finance the aircraft itself.

morningcoffee 14th Jul 2018 03:02


Originally Posted by Freehills (Post 10195492)
Airbus faces a logjam of undelivered A330 jets worth well over $1 billion for airlines affiliated to China's debt-laden HNA Group following a stand-off over late payments. Companies belonging to the Chinese conglomerate have delayed payments for several months, leading Airbus to withdraw deliveries rather than step in to finance the aircraft itself.

Would lead you to believe Airbus didn't think they'd get paid even if they financed it themselves. Pity it's not Boeing and they could use EXIM to guarantee the payment, makes it easy to sell, for instance, 737's by the hundreds to anyone and I mean anyone who wants them.

cxorcist 15th Jul 2018 01:33


Originally Posted by morningcoffee (Post 10196248)
Would lead you to believe Airbus didn't think they'd get paid even if they financed it themselves. Pity it's not Boeing and they could use EXIM to guarantee the payment, makes it easy to sell, for instance, 737's by the hundreds to anyone and I mean anyone who wants them.

Not true! EXIM does nothing to help US airlines buy 737s. In fact, it only strengthens their competitors.

act700 15th Jul 2018 04:07



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