Direct Entry First Officer
 

I see many of you discussing working as SO at CX, but few talking about DEFO.

I’m 737 FO in my home country where English is not the first language and my total time is reaching 800 hours or so.
For those of you at CX, would I have any opportunity to enter CX when I have 1000+ hours or are there other factors to get a job at CX like nationality, flight experiences?

I also want to know “crew culture” at CX. It’s quite usual for captain take FO and sometimes even flight attendants to have some beer and light food after long flight, probably 1 or 2 in morning then the FO and other crews are supposed to go with the captain even if they rather want to get sleep in hotel room. It’s power harrassment for some.
I guess there’s no culture like this is CX or other airlines and I want to see if I’m right or wrong.

Here we go again , it's already been covered

With those hours it would be DESO. I expect the guys who join as DEFO have at least 3000 hours FO time in a jet. Used to be 7,000 hours or military but times have certainly changed.

Oh brother, what’s the point? He’s not qualified, but they’ll probably take him because they’re desperate. He’ll be miserable at CX for as long as he stays, and nothing will EVER change, until CX is sold and/or chopped up for parts and pieces.

Agreed, such an easy target for an utterly disorientated crew recruitment office. In five years time a candidate of "this" "caliber", with close to almost 800 flying hours, is probably over qualified! LMFAO :D

Your first step would be to approach CX recruitment. As already mentioned, you currently do not have the required hours for DEFO. If you joined as a SO, you could expect approx 5 years in that role.

Regarding your "culture" question: If you don't want to go out for a beer, ... just say no. Your apparent lack of assertion would not be a desirable attribute for the cockpit.

Cx has stopped hiring defos anyway. No ability to train them with all the guys coming off the 777.

I would have to agree with this comment. Grow some balls of your own man.

These comments show you have ZERO knowledge of how society works for locals in many Asian countries.
Good news is, no nothing happens if you don’t go out with the capt. at cx if you don’t want to.

Now asking the crew out for a drink is “power harassment” and all that may entail? Well sod that then you band of &$)(/@& .. !

To be able to say no, or no thank you, is an absolute required skill of a pilot, irrespective of culture, being it inside or outside the cockpit. You, obviously, lack the understanding of the importance of acceptable cockpit cultures. The dude is struggling to comprehend the CX entry requirements and feel pressured to go out for a beers with the rest of the crew? as I said, grow balls.,

Again, you have NO idea of the social dynamics in many Asian countries if this is your comment.

I am not saying these are good cockpit practices, but if you look at the poster's location I am not surprised one bit by the question.
That's the way it has worked for many many years in that part of the world, I can promise you good cockpit practices are not going to change that.

He's asking a very legitimate question considering where he's from, and a simple answer is enough. CX is essentially a British company so no, you don't need to go out if you don't want to.

Oh yes, very British indeed! Just ask the Yankee and Ozzie founders ;). Off you go carry on tally ho dear boy!

Faust. Check out the Swire flag which is on all the aircraft. I know it was originally the flag of the China Navigation Company but it isn't Oz or Yankee doodle!

bringbackthe80s

What I'm saying IS, no matter WHERE you come from, being it culturally or geographically defined, you have to be able to adapt to an industry norm cockpit culture. You really don't have to try and lecture me on Asian, including Korean, culture. Let's not even go down the road of how the company culture, including local culture, has put such and unnecessary amount of Korean Airline planes into a hole in the ground. So, should the airlines adapt to the local culture? I don't think so, buddy. There's just not room for that approach and that goes for ANY culture. Period.

Right, you’re talking about good cockpit practices again now. I give up

Guys do some research about a guy who lost his job after not having beer with one of notorious captain in KAL.
Have you guys forgotten about all the accidents happened in KAL due to power distance and FO could not be assertive in cockpit to prevent that.
It's very natural for that guy to feel pressure if he has seen cases like that. Grow some balls? What's the point if you lose your job or make your life miserable in cockpit because he's scolding you every little mistakes.
I am sure he can be more assertive if they would allow him to do so without threating his job. Agreed?

Thanks, gentlemen.


I know my total time hasn't met CX requirement, but I'm flying 80 hours a month. So I thought I'm gonna be eligible to apply for sooner or later.


About the culture I mentioned, those of you seem to be aware of asian culture whilst others doesn't have an idea of what it is.
I totally agree that right assertion is an essential part for flight safety and I gotta say something I have to say in the cockpit. But the thing is that culture can't always come before flight safety unfortunately and I think this is oriented from air force as ex-air force pilots make a large portion of airline industry.


I might be defending myself but these are some practices of culture in my country.


FO should show up and examine all the plans, wx and notams before captain comes.
FO should walk behind or at least half step behind captain.
FO should introduce him/herself before flight if it's the first flight with captain.
FO should wear a coat if captain shows up with coat on in winter times and shouldn't wear if captain doesn't.
FO should ask captain what time he/she’s gonna have breakfast next morning on layover flight (so that FO will have breakfast with captain not to make the captain eat alone.)
FO shouldn't turn his/her map or chart light on brighter than captain's.
and many more...


One day at night flight, a captain told me that I'm rude because I didn't turn my map light towards him when he was reading weight and balance sheet.


I love flying and it's why I chose this job. But this culture issues make my job difficult.

God and his slave !

Don't know whether to laugh or cry......

Your life expectancy might go up with a slightly more chilled outfit.

Good luck ;-)

avi8safety, there are ******** captains in every company I’m sure however at Cathay there is no requirement to do any of the things you stated.

We do our part because we’re professional pilots, not because we’re told too.

If a captain told me off for not turning the reading light I would tell him to just settle down and focus on the important stuff...

You all keep talking with your western mentality, I hope the people who are writing on here haven’t got any experience in Asia, or it’d make me seriously wonder.

Join as a second officer and in 5 years you’ll STILL have 800 hours.
The P2x bs Licence they ‘invented’ here gives you a cheesy useless rating and doesn’t accrue hours!

I thought CX is one of the world-class airlines in this industry and their requirement is less than some other airlines like 3,000 TT. So I thought I will be sooner or later eligible for application.
But I also have doubt that such a big company like CX really hires 1,500 TT pilot as first officer or it’s just written minimum and I need more hours like 3,000 or something.

The main reason I want to change my company is to avoid the power relations between CAPT and FO I mentioned above and captains telling off in cockpit.
So I just wanted to see if this is general culture in aviation or just in my country.

You can take the slot I'm vacating. Great other pilots, especially those who've been here a long time, to work with, S*#@y company to work for.

LoL too funny but yeah it happens. I can answer some here as what i do as a captain at CX.

1. Reading all the details of the flight is like yeah we are pilots so i expect you to have read them at the same time i have read them. So we both know ****.DUH

2. Your a human being, walking behind me will give me a sore neck....like my children you walk beside me your my equal in most regards. My rank only gives me authority....like being a Dad/Mum we know more **** because we been around longer, respect us but we know you going to be an adult one day and do your own thing.

3.introduce yourself? Umm yeah we all shake hands and say g’day.

4.coat wearing if captain wears coat? .i wear a coat because its cold you dont then your a dumbass. All i care is your sharp dressed,what you do on a cold or hot day is an adult choice. Though some captains do feel that we should all look the same? But its personal.

4. You can join me for breakfast if u see me there and wish to, but if you dont, I dont care. But as any other normal human being see someone who they know....if you saw the captain you would say good morning. Its happened to me and the FO was going to sit with someone else I am not humiliated and had a quick good morning and i went back to reading. Dont be rude...but be yourself. Me personally am fine and can function being alone at a table. Wonder what sorry individuals need that reaffirmation.......

5. I can fly an aircraft around the world....then i can turn on my own map light to read my weight and balance...sheesh....and if u need a light just turn it on. I could even see me laughing if a captain had dare said I was rude for not pointing my light for him...when i was an FO. Would have said something like “ if you cant turn on a light by yourself then how can u possibly fly this aircraft?” Bet that would have lit a fuse under his ass.

Noone will dismiss for the above if u pushed back. Just stare at them like they are dog**** and as human beings you should show your disdain for individuals who make themselves better by belittling others. Just do your job safely.

But thats me as a captain at cx.....most my mates who are captains are the same.

I also have been for selection and passed as SO. Great experience was intense though.
I prepped in a 777 sim. Perhaps the only sim available in Europe was in Rome. I booked this through base.mu

contact: [email protected]

They will get you through the sim profile, it was basically identical. Its not worth going on the 737. Much better to fly the 777. Pricing was reasonable also. Very happy overall.

ATPL. You are 34 yrs old, and you are willing to spend possibly 5/6 years as an SO, not gaining any logged time whatsoever. That sounds like a career killer if there ever was one.

Mate, you can’t fix stupid! Some people have to learn the hard way.

Seniority is everything in most carriers. Even losing a week or a month can be a large difference in career earnings, upgrades, and lifestyle.

Carriers are hiring and face some huge retirements. So WHEN you hire on is very important in that the boom in hiring is cyclical and everyone hired ahead of you will be there forever—or at least until the end of your career.

Why someone — near the beginning or middle of a promising career — would waste precious seniority joining an airline without a future totally baffles me. It’s not rumor; the workforce has had a continuous decline in all aspects of working conditions for decades now and is claiming woe (as an excuse to chisel) while other carriers boom and bonus. There is no indication of a trend reversal, no indications that basings will happen, no indication of anything other than cost in HKG will markedly rise while compensation and scheduling decline.

The phrase ‘are you nuts’ comes to mind.

Perhaps this is your ONLY option. Fair enough. But have you REALLY looked everywhere else ? If you haven’t I’d submit you are doing yourself a disservice in the long run. I remember days of inexperience as well; what has changed with experience is I tend to listen to those who have been there more.

The difference in just 100 numbers on a seniority list can make or break a career at a new airline. I know personally of people who saw time to command stretch out 5 more years over such a small number. Now, when AC is hiring 40/mo, and US airlines doing that weekly (with BA and QF not far behind), you will possibly see years more as an FO with that many joining ahead of you. If you know (KNOW) you are going to leave CX, then don't hesitate. Otherwise, you could be stuck here (and your family) living in a shoe-box (rented) for the rest of your days. And just think how pleasant that will be with CX's proven management skills at dealing with their staff :sad:. Seriously, the best time to leave is always 'now'. There is no future of any value at CX, and the doors are open at almost every respectable airline in the first world. Don't miss your chance.

By the way, I was curious about direct entry first officer program which is currently opening.
But why are most of you talking about SO or stories end up with SO?
I asked about being DEFO but everyone talks about miserable life of SO.

Does this job opening look for SO candidates?

Ok, then we can explain about the miserable life of a 747 DEFO. In some ways the most miserable job in the airline. Effectively no rules, fatiguing schedules, abusive px policies, unreliable schedule, threat to marriage and family life. Other than that, it's great :ok:

You forgot the shiny jet.

Once they read that then....