Dragon Questions
Hi all
Please could some kind souls at Dragon help answer the following questions. I realise it's a big ask but any info greatly appreciated. What is the time to command? Which fleet do new joiners start on? (I've got medium and large Boeing & Airbus experience). When can you change fleet - is it an annual request/fleet notice/told what to do based on 'operational requirement'? 😬 Roster Patterns- are there many tours - 3-3, 3-2-3, 3-4-3 rotations etc. How do these compare with the number of daytrips? When you're doing multiple sectors per day do you keep the same aircraft? Is there much sitting around between flights in HKG on tour? Is roster version 1.0 fiction, does it change much (China Wx delays aside)? How many weekends are spent working? How many earlies per month? How many days off per month? How many nightstops per month? How is Leave allocated? How easy is it to get? Do you have to take blocks of days? Is part time working offered? Will it be? Thanks very much for helping-out Cheers Xxx666 |
Wow, thats a lot of questions...
Fleet, 50/50 and frozen for 2 years. Basically KA is no different to any other short haul airline where you work your usual 16 - 18 days per month with a mix of day trips, 2 & 3 day patterns and the odd 4 day pattern. Delays, do your research, china makes up the lions share of the sectors so expect delays and therefor roster disruption. Time to command, hard to say but if you have good experience and are truly a good operator then 12 months is not out of the question (could change though at any time) Many have arrived in the past year or two thinking that a command will be handed to them in good time but have found the operation a little outside there reach. Leave system works ok and there is a limited preferential bidding system that can get you either weekends off, early/late starts or max overnights. (chose one) Part time???? You haven't asked about living expenses in HK so I presume you have done your research on that matter. Hope this helps. JY |
Thanks JY that's great.
Yes - all the HK research is done. Just need rents to drop by 95% and China to open more airspace and then my unicorn and I will be happy. Cheers Xxx666 |
why is it every first officer will ask the typical question "How long to command?"
When you join a foreign outfit, you come in at an entry level..that means you are literally at their mercy. That is if you have signed on the dotted line. If you come in thinking that they will give you command at your own speculated time, I think you are in for a false horizon. 1 year to command in KA? well....well.... HKg is not for you if you have a family...get the hint? Take care... |
why is it every first officer will ask the typical question "How long to command?"
When you join a foreign outfit, you come in at an entry level..that means you are literally at their mercy. That is if you have signed on the dotted line. If you come in thinking that they will give you command at your own speculated time, I think you are in for a false horizon. 1 year to command in KA? well....well.... HKg is not for you if you have a family...get the hint? Take care... |
Career progression and potential is important when considering career options. Generating options - like we do in the aircraft.
This is a discussion seeking info specifically about the points mentioned - not about the merits of living in Hong Kong (my wife has PR and we've lived in HK before) but thanks anyway. |
Because it's a valid question and they have every right to weigh up a career decision however they like?
New joiners are starting the command process at 8 months starting with the command workshop, to pre command assessment and then the course. Still a long way to go but it does come quick. As mentioned above, the slots are there for now, but it's up to the individual to seize the moment so to speak. |
Thanks very much Pilot_Recruit
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how is success rate in command course these days?
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Somewhere between 50-75% I think at the moment. Much improved on the first 6 months of last year where it was zero...
|
Originally Posted by MPPCAG
(Post 9835806)
Somewhere between 50-75% I think at the moment. Much improved on the first 6 months of last year where it was zero...
Put yourself in a dark place with with everything going wrong, look to the person next to you for assistance and and realise that you are better off doing it yourself as they will only mislead you. Add in the requirement to operate in a non radar environment flying approaches with commencement altitudes below the MSA with no holds to let down into, that is the command course in KA......If your ready, they are happy to offer you a command OPPORTUNITY, nothing more |
Go to Hong Kong International Airport - Your Regional Hub with Worldwide Connections and Gateway to China
and type in KA under flight number. You will see the average afternoon 3-6 hour delay per flights to/from Beijing or Shanghai on any summer afternoon. Not a deal breaker, but really its so boring here. |
Originally Posted by KABOY
(Post 9835918)
Statistics are pointless in assessing the time for command, its the calibre of the applicant that makes the difference. Having jet command experience means nothing at KA, it just helps you get through the door.
Put yourself in a dark place with with everything going wrong, look to the person next to you for assistance and and realise that you are better off doing it yourself as they will only mislead you. Add in the requirement to operate in a non radar environment flying approaches with commencement altitudes below the MSA with no holds to let down into, that is the command course in KA......If your ready, they are happy to offer you a command OPPORTUNITY, nothing more |
Originally Posted by JY9024
(Post 9836172)
Show me an airport that does not have a STAR or a Holding Pattern that will get you below the MSA..
|
Originally Posted by Natca
(Post 9836315)
About every ERA in the South Pacific and China.
|
Originally Posted by UNIFO
(Post 9836553)
Which STAR or holding pattern in HKG get you below MSA?
Limes at 4500 (MSA 4300) then fly the published approach 07L Or TD at 4500 then fly the published approach 25R |
Limes is 6000B/3000A.
|
Originally Posted by crwkunt roll
(Post 9836796)
Limes is 6000B/3000A.
My point that I'm trying to make is that every airport has (by design) a method of arrival to the IAF ensuring terrain clearance when below the MSA, Im open to be proven wrong here... |
Limes is 6000B/3000A. |
What is the time to command? Which fleet do new joiners start on? (I've got medium and large Boeing & Airbus experience). When can you change fleet - is it an annual request/fleet notice/told what to do based on 'operational requirement'? 😬 Roster Patterns- are there many tours - 3-3, 3-2-3, 3-4-3 rotations etc. How do these compare with the number of daytrips? When you're doing multiple sectors per day do you keep the same aircraft? Is there much sitting around between flights in HKG on tour? Is roster version 1.0 fiction, does it change much (China Wx delays aside)? How many weekends are spent working? How many earlies per month? How many days off per month? How many nightstops per month? How is Leave allocated? How easy is it to get? Do you have to take blocks of days? If you bid for peak periods as an FO you'll do okay, as a new skipper, no chance! Yes. One week blocks or you can wait til it's all over and take single days. Is part time working offered? Will it be? Come, get a rating and a command then go where you want to be IMO. Family life here is a mere existence on a FO wage and a little easier on a skipper wage but after schooling and accommodation you won't be making any large investments. The company has a long way to go with recognising the detrimental effect of ever changing rosters and they showed how much we are valued this year - after offering some staff a 4% pay rise and paying out exec bonuses we were offered ZERO 0%. The crews you'll work with are great, we are a big Check little training airline. I hope this helps. |
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