Yes, let's just take a random number...

But seriously, how long do you think it will take you to get that salary?

Because for the first... 15 years(?) , you surely won't be getting as much.

PFV. Entertainment (far more expensive than you realise), travel, clothes, toiletries (expensive)....and numerous other costs that 'just happen'...as most of us who have been alive a while know all too well about. Mngmt mole is spot on. You will live like a $50K/yr pilot in the USA, or with wife and kids be effectively at the poverty line.

You can argue statistics any way you wish. The reality is that the present package is barely adequate.

For a single person, it is livable. You don't really care that you live in a 400 sq ft shoe box. You have enough to enjoy yourself a few nights out a month. Can barely save any money.

For a married person, it is questionable. You may accept it because you are 'trying to establish your career'. Your wife however will feel claustrophobic within 6 months, and constantly be bitching to you that she never gets to go anywhere and hates the apartment/chinese/weather/etc. You will save a little perhaps for a rainy day fund.

For a married person with children. Welcome to hurt city. You will spend all your time dealing with a desperately unhappy wife, confused children and a very fragile home life. You will be crippled by the cost of schooling (if you can even get them into one), your wife will hate that you have no money to do anything, your kids will resent you because you can't provide them the life that many of their classmates enjoy. You will save nothing for the future.

There is not a recognisable package in HK that addresses the issues of retirement, medical and long term savings. CX expects you to have just enough to get by. After that, they really couldn't care less about your family's happiness or your need to plan for the long term. That's the reality.

If you come over, don't bother complaining to your colleagues how 'tough you have it'. There is plenty of info out there, so it's way past time where ignorance is an excuse.

Your toiletries and random expenses are not covered at 900hkd a day ? And the 10,000 miscellaneous I just presented ?

You really pay 1000hkd a month for phone Netflix and tv?

Wow the cabin crew and ground staff must really be eating cup noodles all day long ...

PFV, come one over. You sound JUST like the type of person our current management would like to hire. :D

The hyperbole in the arguments against coming to CX isn't really helping because it's so ridiculous that even the valid points are easy to dismiss. 25K/month for a place with a dorm fridge? Uh-huh, sure.

I couldn't agree more that coming to CX on the current package with a wife and kids is a stupid idea, but for a single person or a couple not planning on having kids anytime soon it's okay as long as CX is just a stepping stone.

Do not come here for a career unless you love pollution and are confident you want to be single forever.

Zero interest in joining Cx, I'm just trying to make a point that for a single guy or gal the salary works .

I'm not denying the fact that your basket case management has taken advantage of you and are squeezing you out.

Coming from Africa, I know what real poverty looks like . These salaries are no where close to the hardships that people face on a daily basis.

If African poverty levels are where you're setting the bar you could be happy
just about anywhere.


Most people want a bit more.

I really don't mean to be rude but nobody here has shown me the numbers otherwise except that random costs for a single person just comes up..

I agree completely that the management has to get their act together but the numberes make sense , it ain't going to make you baller but people live their lives in Hk for a lot less ..

Perhaps it's financial planning in addition to the bitching that will make life more happy, my two cents of course

The airline business is all about seniority in general. In other words, gains in seniority are essentially a part of your pay and govern every aspect of your life at a career airline.

Given the way things have been trending you have to ask yourself is this going to be a viable career. Or have you heard ONE person say (again given events as of late) it's likely to be somewhere you'd want to spend the next 20 years of your life given the information you now have at present ? If your plan is try it and bail, remember that you've given up any seniority anywhere else and are kinda 'stuck' offshore far away from opportunities at home. And the 'Las Vegas' syndrome can be a powerful force in clouding future decisions.

The opportunity cost you have by coming to CX is the years you might be gaining seniority somewhere else. The equipment you operate or experience you gain will likely be worth diddly squat in career opportunity terms on a follow on carrier, although they (and bouncing around Asia and some other countries) might be a personal adventure for you.

If you have ulterior motives for coming to Asia you might have a marginally livable life under conditions which have been trending downward (more work for less pay and benefits). There is no rational reason to expect things to get better. You personally have little negotiation position to reverse this, and in HK can have work conditions (and your continued employment) essentially imposed on a whim. There are pie-in-the-sky promises of future 'stuff' but none have any validity until they actually happen; and historically when they have happened have been small opportunities for those at the top of a list on which you are at the bottom. And the history has been long on promises but way short on delivery.

So good luck; you have been well advised of the potential pitfalls of giving it a go.

Could any of you guys living and working in Hong Kong come up with a figure, you think is enough and justified for the job we are doing to have a normal live in Hong Kong !!!! Would be interesting for us guys who are planning to move there. Captains and FO's inputs would be great !!! Thanks !!

A lot more than they are offering !!!!! Really !!!! :mad:

1. It's irrelevant what a Captain or most F/O's think. They joined on a proper expat package, so don't have your problem.
2. If you come here with no experience, then the salary you will receive is FAR IN EXCESS of a fair amount. It's obviously not about the money, so come anyway. You can save some yes, but be prepared to spend a lot more than what is quoted here. You are one lucky SOB to walk into an airline job without doing anything to achieve it. Suck it up and please don't complain to me.
3. If you are indeed experienced, then please have an open mind, it is not the be all and end all anymore.

I did not really ask what a Cap or Fo at Cathay gets. Just a general salary required for a good live in HK. No matter if you are a pilot, teacher, bank executive or what ever !!!!!
Just a number would be good !!!!

Depends how you define 'good'

At least 25K/month in rent
Owing a vehicle is basically luxury.

Ok, I'll give it a try.

HKD180,000 per month will give you a "good live" in HKG.

That amount would approximate a comfortable life a decent upper middle-class (if there is a such a thing anymore) family would achieve in Aus/NZ/Canada.

Thanks !!!

Like I pointed before: when do you think you will be earning 100000hkd a month after tax?
Not now, not even in 10 years.

Joining salary: 36000hkd + 10000hkd housing (before 12% tax - or 24% tax the first year)
How's that working with your numbers?

Sorry I don't understand .

46k? Who is paying that for a DEFO ?

I'd expect to be making at least 100,000 as soon as I'm released to the line.

36000HKD starting?
Yes, year one DEFO 100,000HKD.

36,000 + 10,000 for a Second Officer.

If you're joining as a First officer, it's 81,000 + 14,000 housing, but before tax
(15% normally, double tax the first year), hardly 100,000 HKD after tax!

I have yet to meet a DEFO, but yes, it works for a single guy and even is a decent salary. Not so much to take care of a family.

If you come as a DEFO, it means you have experience, maybe a command already and might be employable in a major back home. I'd say lifestyle on starting salary would be similar to your current lifestyle in your home country, except you won't be able to buy a place, and the place you will be renting will be much smaller than the one you have in your home country (half the size at the most).

Please, just don't complain to me afterwards about how life is expensive in HK, how your (future) wife hates the pollution or how hard it is to commute.

I wish someone could post the letter written by one of our new hires to the AoA, complaining about how difficult he's having it on his current salary.

To live comfortably, I'd say you would need that same basic salary + 65,000HKD as housing in order to rent a place almost as big as the one you have back home. So 145,000HKD

figures for SO are a bit off. must be looking at old pay scales

well there is a family in who live the green life and only spend 8000 hkd..per month... it can be done.

How a ?green living? Hong Kong family survives on HK$8,000 monthly | South China Morning Post

If you fancy a bachelor pad on hong kong island.. there is a new project in Wan Chai..North Point etc... Hong kong newest edition bachelor pads..

One Prestige project at Yuet Yuen Street in North Point.
Measuring 163 sq ft in floor area, the apartment will be the tiniest available on Hong Kong island when completed in August 2018. Each studio unit comprises a 60 sq ft bedroom that doubles as a dining area, a 20 sq ft bathroom, and an open kitchen. Half of the studio’s available space is taken up by a standard bed measuring 6 feet by 4, plus a sofa.

Prices for the 33-storey apartment with 207 units have not been revealed.

However, One Prestige is not even the title holder for smallest unit size in the Hong Kong SAR.

That dubious honour goes to the AVA62 apartments in Jordan, north of Victoria Harbour in Kowloon. Each unit in AVA62, built by Wisdom Gaining, measures 152 sq ft, including a 21 sq ft balcony. Despite its size, AVA62 sells for about HK$20,000 (2500USD) per square feet, putting the average unit at about HK$3 million (400000 USD).

http://www.scmp.com/sites/default/fi...mage_hires.jpg

Hong Kong developers rush to build ever smaller homes, but buyer beware | South China Morning Post

Mea Culpa.
I, indeed, quoted wrong figures for Second Officers.

Joining salary is 40,700hkd before tax.

Coming from the unmentionable desert airline, whenever we are in Hong Kong everyone says they same thing. We can't believe how expensive it is going out for dinner and drinks in some fairly average places in the Mid Levels. I would say that our perspective of what is cheap and expensive is already a little skewed as our home base is not particularly cheap either.

Hi PFVSPNF et al,


I apologise. I've had a busy month and no time to prune. Coming back to this thread late but PFV you've asked someone to 'show you the numbers otherwise' so here is a quick rundown.




First... you won't hit $100,000HKD after tax until you become a skipper... which will be around 12+ years regardless of whether you join as a DEFO or SO. If you join as an DEFO $81k salary + $14k housing = $95k... minus 17% tax = $79k. So there is $21k of your $30k projected savings gone right away. Even after 10years you will top out on the FO pay scales at less than $100k (inc housing) after tax. If you join as an SO you are further in the hurt locker at half that.


The rest of your numbers are in the realms of reasonableness however depending upon how you want to live, your food and your miscellaneous needs to be higher. If you want to sit at home every night by yourself and eat 'local' chinese then you will be fine. BUT if you want to head out with your new friends for dinner and a drink - $2000/per night (on an average night - not big). Lunch and a couple of beers - $500. You've gobbled up your entire miscellaneous in only 4 (small) nights and 4 lunches out - in a month. Want to eat nice food at home? Milk or meat or fruit are 3-4 times more expensive than the USA. Do you like driving a car? Petrol is almost $7.50USD/gal. Buy some clothes? (Does that come out of miscellaneous?) A Movie? Haircut? Soap? New computer? iPad? New phone? A concert? A hobby? (miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous?) You get the point. It's the little things here that drain your savings. That extra money will disappear quick. But it is doable as a single guy.


But now here is the catch. Assuming you like chicks, are an average likeable guy, and aren't butt ugly... by the time you are approaching the magical $100k (post tax) figure at 12yrs from now, chances are you have a wife and kid(s) (because hey... even for the devoutly "I'm just coming to HK as a single guy" crowd... few people stay single forever!). Hell... your kids could be 6 or 8 yrs old by now! And now you are going backwards. The first place I rented with my missus 10+yrs ago was a 2 bedroom in town. It cost me $30k/mth (10yrs ago!). You want somewhere OK for your family (roughly 1/4 the size of a place in the USA)? $40k+. Want a yard for your kids to run in? Forget it. Most don't have one (or pay $55k+). School - after my $50k entry levy/child (thats one of the cheap ones!) - and after CX's contribution - I'm still out of pocket $8400/mth /child! (Thats not including all the little school extras).


Now here's where people say "I'll just do a few years here and then leave and get a gig elsewhere after I get my big shiny jet ticket"... in which case I say, if you've got good enough quals for a DEFO gig at CX, chances are you'll be able to get on seniority list at a major in the states - and if not now, maybe in another year or two? As far as I know airlines are about seniority (well... not really at Cathay... it means very little - talk to all the SO guys who have been screwed by DEFO's previously, or 747 guys who can't bid off their fleet in accordance with their seniority only to watch DEFO new joiners guys take the spots they want on Airbus - seniority here means squat... but I digress)... so IN OTHER major airlines seniority means something... so why would you waste 5-10yrs of it here only to go home and join at the bottom and start all over again.


But in the end... after all the money is tallied - and whether you are ahead or behind financially - what it really comes down to is "Are you happy here?" and "How much sacrifice do you make to (not) get ahead?" Family? Friends? Job satisfaction? Health? Lifestyle? Hobbies? And for more and more guys, as the screws are tightened in one area (finances or job satisfaction or work life balance) it makes it harder to justify the sacrifices in other areas (family or friends or lifestyle).


Anyway... I've tried to keep my post relatively factual and hopefully helpful. If you still want to take the gig no problems... no need to justify it to me... it's your decision to make... I'm just providing the facts as requested.