I thought I will never say this, and it still sounds funny when I do say it...Cxorcist is right!...yuck...

Yes, Cxorcist is right!
Rod needs to explain why he prevented the NC from releasing more information about the negotiations to the membership. When AT says that the NC prevented the TA from going through, what she actually meant was the Rod prevented it.

Why did he not release his opinion on Clause 7 before the vote, why only now?
I am sorry but ROD has lost a lot of respect from me over the way he handled the TA vote.

Time for a change. If you want the same but maybe better managed, try GF, if not DS is also a better choice.

Because the GC voted to present the TA to the membership (11 for, 9 against), he couldn't sabotage it.
In the end, it was a good decision because almost half of the membership voted for the TA.

And that AT complains about how the 'leadership' failed to support the TA is sad.
Was their recommandation of voting FOR the TA not enough?

Thank god the majority saw the deal for was it really was.

My complain about Rod would be that he didn't do enough to convince us it was a bad deal. But his hands were tied.

Cripes I agree with the exorcist. It takes a very long time to knock down a wall by head butting it.

A vote for Rod is a vote for the status quo. If you are happy with our current position and optimistic about the future based on our current direction, by all means vote for Rod. If you would like to see a different direction, then you should probably vote for DS. I don't think GF is a viable candidate despite his appealing personality. This job requires intellectual horsepower and a time/effort dedication the likes of which very few CX pilots can muster. It also takes people skills and the ability to build relationships and maintain them. Rod does just the opposite with his arrogance and self importance, he destroys relationships.

I agree with CXorcist.
Nothing will change if RF remains chairman. Maybe talk to some of the GC members or other TU's to hear what they have to say about him. Ever heard of Napoleon?

CR,

You bring up a good point, although you didn't mean to do so. In first world countries and unions... When a Chairman, GC, and NC present and recommend a TA that fails, those elected members step down and allow a newly elected group have a crack at it. That's how it works. You don't get to try, try, and try again with the same failed actors. Duh, get a clue HKAOA... Only in bizarro world HK does this Sh!t fly. Unbelievable!

CR,

I agree with most of what you write except I believe a new Chairman has a better chance of achieving these goals than does the existing one. I also think the damage Rod is doing to relations with the other TUs will take years to repair. Make no mistake, these TUs have unique leverage not enjoyed in HK, but we will not share in any of their fruits if the HKAOA (Rod) insists on telling everyone else how things are going to be and what to do.

Who wouldn't take the USAOA CBA right here and now?

I wouldn't! 30 days of free reserve? No A days?

DFO has publicly stated that she is awaiting the change in leadership of the HKAOA!!!!

That there is the single reason why we should ALL vote for RF to continue on.

For the DFO to reduce this ludicrous industrial situation and history to a single personality clash is childish at best.

Stay the course, now is not the time for regime change.

Actually, that's not correct. She wants to wait until the newly elected Chairman (RF or otherwise) and GC are in place so as to have continuity with only one group rather than two. It actually makes sense to me.

Yeah, and I want to wait until their new team is in place. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Its simple why they are waiting:


By 26th August they will know exactly how many trainers are willing to come on board both on and off HK Base. They will then know the shortfall of what they need.


They have been working on ways to reduce training demand by way of:
CAD dispensation on RT/PC and Line checks etc. which = trainers needed/gained


Outsourcing training to QF, Dragon and others = effective trainers gained


Contractual trainers/checkers = effective trainers gained.


Delays to A50 programme etc and expedition of moving retiring aircraft aircraft will be known= effective crew gain/ training hours reduced etc.


The new GC and president of the AOA will be known on 1st Sept.


Company goes back to the table offers the same deal again with some more wishy washy clarification on reserve and clause 7 with a further promise to backpay HKPA as well as honor the increase.


HKPA is the prime focus because that is 52% of the membership. The fight for real change will be traded off for a bribe.....:ok:


CC and TB will be over because this time 51 % will vote Yes.


There will be no wide ranging improvement guys are wanting. No pay back for the years of erosion of COS.


It has instead been a big fat merry go round of crap for nothing!:mad:


Sorry.... The only way to solve any of the REAL outstanding issues is to slog each and every one out in court on an individual basis. This crowd does not negotiate anything fair. Fairness is achieved in court and even that is stacked in the imperialists favor.


The Goose of the AOA is cooked regardless who gets voted in or out!


:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

I think you scenario is unfortunately very likely.

My hope is that at least guys on bases show common sense and don't join training for a little while longer.

And that our newly elected GC decides not to bring a TA for a vote if it's not a vast improvement over the last one.

CR I think we tried the IFAPLA approach and years later several of those we railed against ended up running the union.

I think the GMAs memo just outlines how we have shot ourselves in the foot and the junior pilots will lose out with promotions and income.

+ 1 (can't find the like button)

vote fore RF to step down!!!

Rod, you've lost it mate. You had your chance. Almost everybody was behind you, and it wasn't enough. Time to pass the reigns to someone else. Keep the industrial pressure, but lose the Chairman. Certainly DS has a better chance of getting an acceptable deal than RF. Rod doesn't know how to win. Compromise is lost on him, and relationships are only possible if they're on his terms. I think CX has decided it can't ever let someone like RF be successful lest we start to think that strong arming them is a repeatable option.

Management and their stooges are out in force today it seems.

They are desperate to install a chairman they can "do business with".

AT said as much when she stated that negotiations will wait until a new committee is installed.

To change chairman and direction now would put at risk the steady pressure we have built up over the last two years.

Give RF a GC that will work with him, not fight with him over their personal agendas.

Reading the post of one of the Negotiating Committee members on the AOA forum it seems even the NC is promoting someone new as chairman for the AOA. There were always rumours about tension and interference from RF which seemed to be now confirmed from someone in the know.

It does not matter who gets in. What should worry everyone more is the fact that 52% are HKPA members and the next deal will only show an improvement in HKPA with the bribe to back pay to the original date. There will be nothing of improvement for the more serious issues or the reason CC or TB was enacted in the first place.

The crap deal will get in eventually and that's it. No miraculous fixing of all issues just a taste of sour vinegar in more than 47% of the pilots.

I believe in the last FRMS meeting it was suggested to do a clockwork assessment of the PER Flight. It was rejected because it's obvious what it will show.

I am sorry I see no future benefit in anything unless the real issues of rostering fatigue and work balance are addressed across all fleets.