What do we do
 

As has been pointed out in other forums, what do we do if we vote NO? It is foolish to move forward without a plan. I think the AoA needs to step up and provide a clear path, we can't move forward based purely on emotion, business does not work that way.
I know Ill probably get shot down for this but the people who vote No are you willing to take things a step further, its one thing being tough on a forum its completely different when required to act.
Previous AoA surveys have indicated people are not willing to escalate industrial action so we need a proper plan in place before we act.

We ARE acting. We have ground the company down, effectively cornered them, utilising CC and the TB. We can continue with that until we get presented something that addresses the serious shortcomings of our contract. The company can threaten to 'shrink' the airline, move training to other companies etc, etc. So what. There has never been a successful airline that has 'shrunk' it's way to prosperity and market dominance. Further, to push training to other carriers would ultimately lead to the pilots involved probably finding they enjoy working elsewhere anyway. And the ability for the company to do that is limited, and is fraught with risk. All we want is fair housing (not a 'cost of living adjustment') for ALL the aircrew, stable work rules and a RP package that has RULES that both sides have to abide by. Without that, there IS NO CAREER HERE. The sooner we all realise this the better. The only way forward is to keep the pressure on. If they want to bring out a bigger bat...well, eventually the balls they hit with it go 'out of the ballpark'. The airline will lay in ruin eventually with that mentality. They are trying to intimidate and threaten their way to getting our votes. Not going to work. Send it back and insist on a proper package. The answer is NO.

Simply vote. That's it. If you think it's bad vote no and if you think it's good vite yes. It is a democracy and we agree to that principle. It's the AOA that signed off on this so, we elected them, told them to go ahead and negotiate and this is what we got. If you do not agree you can do something about it in the form of a motion. As I said on the other forum, we must not attack each other as it will divide us. Let everyone be heard and then go from there.

I am starting to think that this rather poor deal, IMHO, was delivered by the AOA on purpose so we can vote no and try for improvements. In other words, back to Manila with a "told you so". However, I do NOT see how accepting free reserve, does that. I am honestly torn by all this as I did expect better in the RPs area. I'll let the system work but hope there is no trickery as we saw with RP 04 and 07. People can, have and will leave the company but they can, have and will leave the AOA as well.

The ones opposing the deal are usually the loudest, from what I've seen so far amongst a few groups it is looking like the deal is gathering a bit more support than what many people would realise. Unless there is a solid plan in place many people will vote it in, it looks as though the GC recommends it so that will also sway a few votes

If it does you can kiss the AOA goodbye for good. The leverage we had with CD and the TB would be lost for good. Most are either voting with the allure of extra cash or with fear. Any sensible person would see that this agreement is not worth the paper it's written on.

I believe that another airline that would like to corner the HK market has made an offer to the association to hire every one of us, if at least 95% accept.

This is the only way they can immediately corner the HK market, and they do not mind paying for it with much better T&C's and a signing bonus much greater than the HKPA 'bonus'. It is not possible to have a corporate takeover of CX, which is why this is the only option.

The first year, many of us would not work much.... as this is a corporate move to take over capacity in HK, they have to acquire aircraft first... but that will be part of the plan with all of the CX aircraft just sitting around. Commuting contracts too!

The other option is to go on Strike.

However, if the AOA group says yes to this crap deal, there won't be many pilots left anyway.

Also we need to establish what, in the current offer, is unacceptable.
Just saying no is not really helpful.
Does anyone have a list of things they especially have an issue with?

What he said. +1

If it's a good deal for you, vote yes

If you feel you're worth more, vote no

Contemplating "what if" is a waste of time.

what are we worth?
 

To all my fellow crew members.

This deal does not address the reason we went into CC and the TB in the first place. The language in the agreement is so loosely worded that it is open to abuse and, based on history, abused it will be.

25 year housing was agreed to in 2008 in exchange for SLS, that empty promise is 8 years old and has still not been honored. Why this two year trial? Any lawyer would laugh at the verbiage contained in this document. The company is bound by nothing but we are forbidden from using any of the levers that got us to this point in the first place.

What you all need to ask yourselves is "Will our current industrial measures achieve our desired goals?" ie a proper contract
If the answer is yes, reject the deal and bide your time. Are you prepared to escalate? I would bet that most are not, I have been here long enough to understand the spinelessness of a Cathay pilot.

I'm voting no. I would rather stick to the status quo than sign a deal that takes away all our leverage.

CC is fun!!!

The FAU and now the cabin crew for China Airlines have demonstrated what it means to have balls. I have seen little girls with more courage and determination than some of our lot.

What do we do

For starters, read Peter V's excellent post, "Our plan B". You'll know where to find it...

Agree with the above post.