Cx257
 

Okay so let me get this correct CX253 a 3man crew to Europe diverts to Copenhagen for a sick passenger who was thankfully okay
Then despite being in contract compliance the crew elect to use discretion to continue to UK Seriously how are we ever going to get this situation sorted if people keep helping out
There are 2 issues here
which set of duty time limits did the crew use because now we are talking 2 sectors so the max 3 man ULR no longer applies . The crew did not achieve the required rest due to the diversion
We are in contract compliance for a reason , to show the company that our goodwill is worth something but when crews extend to help out It is damaging to the rest of us . We also had a golden opportunity to make the 3 man a very expensive operation and hopefully put it to bed once and for all BUT NO here we have yet another crew helping out I give up

Sounds like the company is justified in 3 man European ops if they can do the divert AND further use discretion. Well done chaps!:ugh:

Another three clowns to add to the list.

When did this occur?
Unbelievable

It was the 253, not 257 so LON based crew. Given that info, it could only have been one of two Captains, and sure enough the company got lucky. Next thing you know he'll be going into training!
The big question remaining is "was it legal?"

Disgraceful and potentially illegal. 2 sectors AND 3 crew HKG - LHR?? :confused::= Names please..........

Sorry about the incorrect flight number But that aside can anyone explain to me which set of duty time limits were used and how it was legal
Secondly an engineering manager travelling as a passenger managed to get a quick turn around .
So Continuing with that logic . if I have a crew member travelling as a passenger then it's acceptable to use them as the 4 the crew member to achieve better rest if the operating crew are tired .

A golden opportunity to expose the very limited cost saving of 3 man crew vs 4 man wasted What a w-nker.

Great job! Way to save the day!

Maybe the crew could use the "hero" letters for mopping up the blood from stabbing their professional brethren in the back.

Discusting

Everyone keep calm
CAD is looking into it.

Did a bit of digging.
Looks like sign on time was 0555z and blocked on in London at 2207z.
I make that 16:12.
Legal? Yes
Safe or Smart?.... Probably not

Two sectors gives TD of 14 hours, plus 2 discretion gives 16 hours. Not 16H12m

I was giving the boys the benefit of the doubt. The wording in AFTLs is pretty woolly as usual but I suspect the extra sector would attract the 45 minute penalty.
In which case...... Legal? NO and safe or smart? A resounding NO!

Do some questions need to be asked?
BTW whilst digging for the flight times etc. It appears the Capts. Real Time roster is blocked.

After a closer look at the AFTLS.
Two sectors would give 12:15 plus half the total in flight relief plus the 2hrs discretion.
So probably just snuck in.

Regardless not a brilliant idea in my humble opinion.

Using the AOA app. Prev rest assumptions.

3hr bunk - 15:45 max FDP including 2 commanders discretion.
4hr bunk - 16:15 max

If indeed the crew violated both FTLs as well as CC on this 3-man LHR, then the AOA themselves should press for charges against them from the HKCAD.

Absolutely pathetic.

I agree CR. how about the mention of getting in hot water with the FAA over not following clearances exactly???? The mention of slight deviations "because we've always done it this way".


Seems that bending the rules is a very big part of the CX culture.

Breaking the rules is okay ONLY when it benefits the company
However if anything had gone wrong in this instance those crew would have been thrown under the bus without hesitation.
Plus more than a 2 hour extension is only permitted in an emergency Don't think this counts as an emergency .

Silberfuchs - howdya mean chap? NOT a challenge, just that in your role you're much more upto speed on AFTLs than a lot of us - if I'm correct in guessing your identity. What's your take on the max? Tnx WN.

Correct me if I'm wrong however it is half rest if rest is taken in a bunk >3 hours. The question that needs to asked is how much rest did they actually get? I suspect 1 or 2 got planned rest and the last did not therefore 1 of the 3 crew members would have been more limiting.

I would say CN & F/O got 3:50, maybe 4:00 at a stretch on the first sector, RQ rested the rest making it just legal within the AFTLS. Needed max discretion though which is madness IMHO at the end of a 3-man pattern!