New AFTLS effective March 1
 

Check your company email!

so what does that exactly mean? no W patterns? 3 man crew europe?

Just from a quick read and from what I've previously heard NO, if they do that then for 3 man flights:--
1/ more rest in Europe will be required. Ref 7.1.21.3D
2/all 3 Pilots need a P1 rating. Ref 7.1.7.2

Regarding W patterns:--
after a ULRO duty cycle not less than 4 DDO's MUST be taken, therefore no W's Ref 7.1.22.6

So not likely to change for most of Europe except maybe FRA?

W's....gone

good!! now we can all share the pain and get some decent patterns in HKG:ok:

I read it as Ws are permitted, but not ULRO.

Also, ULRO being scheduled sector times greater than 16 hours - that's only return legs of our very longest NAM sectors, during winter. All other current scheduled flights fall under LRO or normal ops.

So I'd suggest Ws will survive. Perhaps a few less available, however.

New AFTLS effective March 1
 

Actually the only ULRO is the return flight from JFK sector time over 16 hours. So as long as a JFK pattern isn't used as the first half of a W pattern they should still be able to do them.
Or they could just adjust the return sector from JFK by a few min and it wouldn't be a ULRO either.

Great to see the good faith continuing. A document they have had for months, released late on Friday, the day before it's implemented!

How people can have faith by the way the new GMA talks is amazing.

Yes you are right, 16 hrs constitutes a ULRO. So most W's should still be legal....:ugh:

So, looking at the new tables A and B. If you are unacclimatised (more than 3 hrs from HBT) then table B is applicable. However if you have not gone as far East-West as 6 time zones then no physiological rest (7.1.21.3 B and B). All references to a leg stretch pilot under table B refer to 7.1.21.3A and B, so as far as I can see whenever you fly home from a 4 or 5 hr timezone routing you are not going to get a 3rd pilot. So DXB to HKG regardless of time of day or length of sector (<10 hrs) will be a 2 man operation??

2 man to Oz?

744drv,

I think you are partially wrong on this one...both HK-DXB flights on the Airbus during the winter schedule have a scheduled sector time of 9:10 and 9:15 so the 3rd pilot has to be boarded regardless of the departure time.
see ref 7.1.14.1B

The summer schedule is a different story of course when the scheduled sector times are under 9hrs hence 2 crew.

Please correct me if I am wrong...I am not a rostering expert...

AB

744frt,

See my previous post...no change to SYD and MEL...PER and CNS have always been 2 crew.

The only flight which could be changed to 2 man is the BNE flight; but apparently all BNE based captains wrote a letter to the bosses expressing a serious safety issue if the BNE night flights are crewed without the 3rd pilot.

This is only from an Airbus perspective doing around 0.81 - not sure how fast the cargo guys fly to SYD/MEL...

AB

Aquis,

The 9 hour sector time is only included under Table A ... the Acclimatised table. However, under Table B there is no such caveat. Returning to HKG from DXB or RUH you will be unacclimatised and operating under Table B. Thus you can fly a 10 hour scheduled sector trip that can end up in an FDP of 13 hours following a 2 hr odd delay on the ground. And all of this could be happening through the night time.

or not .... if you are fatigued.

747drv,

yep...you are indeed right...unless you can get through the fine print at the bottom of table B...

AB

"7.1.25.5 Will have an average of at least 8 DDOs in each consecutive 28 days period, averaged over three such periods."

... is that just a complicated way of saying "an average of 24 DDOs in a rolling 84 day period"??

SloppyJoe..you might want to check your calender....the FTL's are effective from March 1.....so you still have 2 weeks.

Curtain..
 

I've been bent over for so long now, for so many, that even my chiropractor has given up and joined the queue behind me!

Yes agreed, Cx operating in good faith!!! Yeah right...:D

However, what can we REALLY do about it? Strike?? Won't happen.:sad:

Just do what you have to do to manage your lifestyle and fatigue.:ok:

What was the point of me putting in my requests last month?
Now all pilots won't get what the asked for for march.
Are they trying to piss us off on purpose?