The problem with saving fuel..
 

is that it can never end, by definition.

It's like the "war on drugs" or the "war on terrorism" or the "war in the ME": it must always be fought, and attacked, and new strategies must be formulated by newly-formed committees. It must be perpetual.

For example, we could all (probably safely) reduce our uplift tomorrow by 100kg on each and every sector. Will that bring happiness, laughter, celebrations and bonuses?

No, it will bring forth another plea to please save another 100kg the day after...

And so on and so forth.

Don't get me wrong; I have no problem with running a safe and fuel-efficient business, like we have been doing for the last 70 years. By the way, how's our yield management going?

Sort of like earnings is, is that it is never enough.

Finally....
 

Finally someone gets the fuel saving option.

I never did, so ill routinely take another 30-60 mins on top of CFP unless there are compelling reasons not to.

Not for me to be persuaded to add more gas, no, sell me why I shouldn't.

Not long ago my 35-40 mins of comfort was wrested from ATC: 40-love soon became set point in their favour.

200kg above min divert. Started with CFP or +40 mins

Advantage receiver!

CAVOK

Nice one China and exactly the point. Will it bring financial rewards for YOU AND ME if we reduce CFP to the absolute bare bones? Of course not. It WILL bring significant rewards to those who will take all the credit and very little of the stress (ie they don't have time to fly much). Take what you think is a fair and reasonable amount because you may be asked to explain in the future but I doubt it somehow.

Why would a professional pilot let someone who sits in an office decide their fuel?

Keep in mind that our profit share formula expired last year, so no matter how much fuel you save this year, you ain't getting anything back in 2014.

Food for thought for those crunching CFP correction for even the smallest change, or god forbid, actually take fuel off because "they know better". :ugh:

Is it just me or has all this fuel-saving stuff suddenly come up after certain management changes in Line Ops?

'Nail and head', China. I remember David Downturn's 'target' of $2.00 per ATK, can't remember if it was ever made, I seem to think it was, then they started at us again looking for $1.80. They must get taught this 'target' psychology in MBA school.

Make one 'target' and it might be cardboard cutouts in Hello Kitty City, a smarmy 'thank you' in IntraCx that costs nothing, maybe a free plastic model Airbus, then it all starts again.

@coonabarabran

That's a really good question. No more CFPs for me. Time to dust off my ATPL Flight Planning notes, get a few plotting charts, get hard copies of FCOM 2 out of publications, dig out my Dalton computer and become a professional pilot once again. :E

STP

I will never, ever, take less than CFP fuel (adjusted for Final ZFW). I will add gas if I have even the slightest whim of problems at the destination or alternate.

What incentive do I have for reducing below CFP fuel?

Come on guys, quit being selfish. Think of their bonuses.

Now, I remember from accounting 101 that there are two column thingies in a balance sheet. I believe one is expense, like fuel and salary for those pesky, whiny pilots. The other one is, uh, revenue?

So, who's working on that one? What's being done exactly?

I mean, the service isn't exactly getting better, is it? Save from 'the best cabin crew in the known universe', of course.

We're going smaller aircraft to save fuel, but ASK, and overall revenues, are down.

So we go smaller to save fuel, but that restricts revenue, so we have to save more fuel...

Sounds like an inverted flat spin to me.

Then again, it's easier to get credit for saving a few tonnes of fuel than to get it for increasing a business' potential for generating revenue. That takes too many people and an actual long term growth plan... Who has time?

And lets not forget the war on Cargo Price Fixing fines.
We seem to be losing that one too..........better save more fuel to pay those as well.

Marinero

I think if you break out those old accounting textbooks again you will find that the two pesky things on the balance sheet are assets and liabilities. That is the thingy where all the creativity takes place.

The other thingy is the P&L where the cash flows in and out.

PS: The only time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire

Lucky we have removed the Salt & Pepper shakers in Business Class !
Hmmm you have to ask for S&P now and they turn up in a sealed capsule

- very un business class like !

That should save Tonnes of fuel - Not

The problem with saving fuel is that you as the pilot get nothing out of it!
No thank you, no commendation, no acknowledgment, no bonus or incentive, not even a financial reward of say the equivalent value of perhaps 1% of the fuel you saved the company. NOTHING. Well actually you do get something, added operational pressure to save more fuel, bullying by flight ops, and a pineapple if you complain.
So screw em, don't fly efficiently. A little out of trim here, a little deliberately finding the altitude with the strongest headwind there, a delayed pushback here and a little tech issue there, a little extra off track to avoid weather here and of course a little extra fuel uplift to mitigate said weather there! There are numerous ways to subtly burn a few extra kilo's of fuel here and there! It all adds up and at the end of the day it doesn't threaten jobs, all the extra fuel use puts a dent in Managements bonuses, that's all.

So go forth and conquer the skies fellow sky gods, take your fully laden tin toy, kick it in the guts and burn that kero by the unnecessary gallon!

I guess a cheesy letter from a Swire Prince is better than being dragged before a Star Chamber, it is a form of caring. But I am wondering about something. The Grand Wizard of IATA, Tony Tyler, has recently been making many public statements about aviation fuel, usage, costs etc. So perhaps the Swire Princes are simply adapting to Herr Tyler's words of wisdom, listening to his experience in these sorts of matters?

Perhaps CX Management wish to save fuel so as to save the environment, provide a cleaner, safer planet for our children's future, place their stamp on the carbon footprint program for the greater cause of humanity? Truly, maybe with responsibility comes accountability? Have we been blind to the facts all along - fuel conservation is being promulgated solely for the purpose of saving humanities future?

That salt and pepper shaker issue in J class has only one word : embarrassing.

Seriously, big picture there accountants. Just woeful!!

b.

Every TPE split I do, I receive the aircraft minus 700 to 900 kg's of fuel. No maintenance done, no checks done. There is no F.O.P. budget for ground power unit's but A.P.U is part of the operating budget. GPU's will have to come from a maintenance budget. Not only will a ground power unit save fuel and noise pollution, but it can be rented out when not required by C.X.

But then pilot's don't have the big picture on business unit budgets.

It's always entertaining to hear new people trying to make chicken salad out of chicken****. :ooh:

Well, you got me. It was more 5th grade Home Ec than business 101, and a sketchy memory of it at that.
:}

Still, there's something there...

Still nice of them to point out how to hurt them...................guess they don't want to talk about pay and conditions they can talk amongst themselves about all the extra fuel being carried by those who "are not worthy of discussion"

Dragonair tankers fuel on most, if not all, sectors into China. Not very green I know.

Come on Dan it's a changing of the guard, our new guy did drive a hybrid to school for a week, how green is that!!!!!!!!!

Global warming...erm 'climate change' or whatever it's being called this week is being exposed as the scam that it is. Nice try, but the airline has missed the boat appealing to its pilots on this one. The last few pages of the applicable thread on Jet Blast are interesting reading. Mr Gore and a few others have been very quiet lately.

Having said that, would anyone care to take a guess on how many tonnes of fuel have been unnecessarily burnt into the atmosphere because of China's ridiculous airspace structure? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? The dollar cost must be mind-blowing.

CX should be badgering the Chinese government over the issue, but that would not be as easy as hassling their own pilots.

How is life in Jurassic Park Capt Dark (ages)?

Anyone with a life outside of aviation (or major cities) doesn't need Al Gore or any other self serving hypocrite to see the climate is changing.

The practice of carrying 60T of fuel on a 3 hour sector between sin and cmb is an abuse of the worlds limited resources simply to make some Swire brat just a little bit wealthier.

What's the color of money?
Are CX green?
You bet they are!!!!

PW,

Of course the climate is changing, and until all the politicians with the scientific community in their corner take over the global economy, it will be all the fault of big business, corporate greed, and obese American autos. Never mind that the US has cut its CO2 output by more than double the amount of the entire European continent and all their green projects by simply using natural gas instead of coal to generate electricity. Never mind that the earth has actually been cooling for the last decade. Never mind that atmospheric CO2 levels are nowhere near historic highs.

Yes, the climate is changing as it always has and always will. But the way "climate change" is being packaged and "sold" is the most disingenuous, political ploy ever perpetrated on a global level. Its engineers will not be happy until the UN runs the world's economy and redistributes what little is left after all the worlds' "polluters" are shut down.

PW,

So next time you do that flight you are going to amend it to Cat A fuel, take 30t only then make the next crew take on another 30t?

Mngt practices have made it abundantly clear that all savings reflect on their splendid leadership and are only reflected in their bonuses. Until the thick-headed Commisars that were appointed to run herd over crew realize that in Capitalism, Incentives reign supreme, I see no need for anyone to pay any attention to fuel missives. Do your job, get from A to B as safely as you can. Carry what fuel you must.

Geh065.

The next crew have to take 30t whether they've been left with 30, 20 or 10.

What's your point?

My point is, complaining about it is fair enough but do you care enough about it to NOT load that Cat B fuel? Just load Cat A,ignoring the CFP and let the next crew load what they need in CMB. Costs the company more money but is more environmentally friendly. Or...just load CFP and complain about it on Pprune.

Shutterbug is exactly correct. When will they learn? I'm guessing they won't because we have so many "company men" in our ranks who require nothing more than a weekly update from the CEO and a chief pilot to feel like he is "part of the team." When my bonus is structured the same way as the directors and my total package goes up by the same amount (%) each year as theirs, then I will be 100% all in with their initiatives. Until then, "Same team, same dream" rings extremely hollow.

EFB and Fuel savings!!
 

Delta to rollout Surface tablets to pilots

b.

In the days of my youth I was a Swire Prince.

In the days before that, when CX was The Plucky Little Airline That Could, Derek Stirling, who told me this story, was the gallant little airline's Chief Financial Officer.

He boarded a flight from Bangkok to Kai Tak. As was usually done, in those distant days, he handed his card to one of the cabin staff and in due course was asked if he would like to join his colleagues on the flight deck.

I do not recall if the aircraft was a Convair 880 or a B707 - he did tell me. Professional pilots here will be able to identify the type from what follows.

Anyway, somewhere over Vietnam, he knocked on the cockpit door, said hello to the three men flying the plane, all of whom he knew, and settled into a jump seat.

Now, Derek was the sort of CFO who took an intelligent interest in the practical side of the business. His eyes took in, sucessively, the altimeter and the FE's console, where four red lights were showing.

"Please forgive a silly question", said he, "But is there a good reason why we appear to be above the service ceiling for this aircraft, and why are all the low oil pressure warning lights on?"

Three heads turned, and the chap in the left hand seat said "YOU should know, Derek!"

"Why?"

"Because YOU put in the Fuel Saving Bonus!"

I really really wanted to work for Cathay once........