you are so wrong
 

F...Girl

I don't have an agenda and I'm not in AOAC. But I do have mates who are. So after listening to their side of things I am sympathetic I admit.

You wrote "AOAA have not had to start again". Sorry, they ARE having to start again. They have dumped their lawywers and appointed new ones. They will stop the current registration process and start a new one, with a new name - Australian AOA. It's you I'm afraid who is so wrong.

AAR

Tbird,

I totally agree with you however from what I hear, the recent advances made by AOAC have been rejected by the HKAOA Chairman.

Fenicksgirl,

You don't have to have a have a vote to be influential and DD's USA style of drum banging tactics isn't getting anyone anywhere! As a matter of fact, it's making the company more reluctant to do anything the union wants done.

I have to make a correction. It is not the pilots of CX that are resigned to this endless swinging of handbags. It's a select few individuals (we all know who they are) and it seems they are doing this on their on personal agenda's that in no way reflect the desires of the general membership.

I have another suggestion. How about each Association put out a questionnaire to its members and ask a simple yes or no question. One that is not baited by agenda's. The question could be: Do you want to see the Chairmen of the HKAOA, AAOA and AOAC sit down together with the intent of reaching an agreement on how to move together as a united body?

Or better than that: Do you want to see the Chairmen of the HKAOA, AAOA and AOAC sit down and have a few beers together?

Yep fully understand DD packs some influence, BUT it is the GC that votes, ultimately it is the GC who has to take resonsibility.
Thunderbirds, wishful thinking as it had already taken place for 18 mnths to no avail, however, new generation of GC's may be able to take history asside in the hope of going forward. (Yes i vote for Federation of course!)
Problem example 1.
Company offers a deal at RPs which says Canadian pilots get at least 20 days off per month, however, rest of us have to make up for shortfall of work, thus giving us less days off.
Federation says, no way, we work together to get a better deal for all. AOAC says umm hang on, we represent only Canadian pilots and MUST get the best deal for THEM, and besides you can't tell us what to do. AOAC votes Yes.

Maybe overly simplistic but, this is what i believe essentially is the problem. You can't run a Federation when one group says we will play ball unless we can get a better deal for our guys and gals.

Tbird4
 

Whilst we all agree the sentiment behind your post, perhaps we need to ask ourselves some searching questions.

The Federation was the first and seemingly obvious concept to manage the "global AOA". However, with hindsight, was it the best way of organizing ourselves? Was it right that the HKAOA sought leverage from Canadian Labour Laws, when it would be the Canadians (solely) that would suffer if the company pushed back? Were/are the Canadians and Australians being open and honest enough with their HKAOA counterparts?

Perhaps all of this is just symptomatic of the growing pains of "The AOA" and we, the members, need to sit back and let the leadership get on with it and keep our eye on the long game. Whilst we all may disagree with various positions taken by various AOA Leaders, some other posters have chosen to demonize certain characters, which is both uncalled for and highly counter-productive to our collective long-term interests.

In 5 years, this will matter not. Canada and Australia will be fully on-shored and some form of working relationship will be forged between their Unions and the HKAOA, because ultimately there is more that unites us than separates us. In the meantime I suggest us, the members, tone down the vitriol and spend a bit of time listening and learning.

To that end, it might be an opportune time for the Leadership of both AOAC and AOAA to put out an update addressed directly to the HKAOA membership. I think they owe the HKAOA members an update at least. In return, we need to "park our prejudices" and think the long game (or at least, until the next pay review:} )

Good post Liam.

HKAOA would never agree I suspect. The one-sided message sent to their members castigating AOA C merited a right of reply but AOA C could send it only to their members.

I'll eat my hat (if I could find it) if the HKAOA leadership agreed to your idea.

Management must be laughing their heads off at the separate AOA's.

AAR
 

Regarding AOAC and AOAA speaking directly with the HKAOA membership, anything they say will eventually end up in the public domain, so they may as well strip out the sensitive details and post it on here!! I think we can "join the dots" and understand (if not accept) their positions.

post it on here
 

Saw all the interested parties together in the HH at lunch time today. Perhaps there's some good news on the way?

From what I hear, it didn't go well. Apparently the HKAOA GC is not interested in anything the AOAC has to say. Not good. :sad:

Looks like I got my wish. Unfortunately one of the parties involved acted like a spoilt brat and pissed on the extended olive branch.

one of the parties involved acted like a spoilt brat
 

That's what is going around and it wasn't AOAA or AOAC.