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-   -   PC/RT (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/499925-pc-rt.html)

Five Green 12th Apr 2013 16:43

Aces ?
 
Yeager

Judging by your handle I'm guessing you have never made a mistake during a sim.

As for the rest of us mortals, I've taken the course from the 400 to the ECL driven airplanes. The courses are getting shorter every year. As such you are required to do just as you suggest and train YOURSELF and partner in the IPT or cafeteria etc. That is not a replacement for actual training. While good for practice once procedures and mouth music are known, it is not good for pilots new to the machine. Nor is it good for pilots who have been off for awhile. The books just don't back it up. Add to this the CPT is done from home now and you really are training in isolation. Home study may work but the training department should encourage live feedback and pier communication to ensure the info is understood.

So what happens is SOP/Convention creep. That's where self taught pilots begin to add or delete things and gradually come up with their own slight take on SOPs and conventions. I've seen it in line guys, checkers and CPs. None of it unsafe or even worth mentioning at most airlines, but a 3 here for sure.

Is this a problem ? Well in an airline with big picture thinking and checkers with the experience to see real problems as opposed to interpretations of convention, then NO . In an airline where the minutiae and pet SOP crowd dominate and subsequently good pilots' careers and health are the casualties, then yes it is a problem.

Having had real emergencies in aircraft and talking to others who have also had serious situations and emergencies, it goes extremely well, but the mouth music etc. may not be perfect. Does the training kick in ? Absolutely !

The other problem is the SOPs themselves, while they are getting better, there are still holes big enough for interpretation to creep in. We need to write a tighter script, so that when learning a new airplane, cockpit ECL or whatever, you can reference specific written mouth music in the manual, not buried in best practice, power points or any of the many locations needed to be researched to put it all together.

If you want anal pedantic perfection then put it in the books. If it's not in the books then allow some latitude with a pleasant comment in the de-brief.

Cheers Fly Safe
FG

VforVENDETTA 16th Apr 2013 03:04

Well said FG.

This place is all about subjectivity and none about objectivity. Pomp and circumstance do not make up for lack of strict standards put in writing and enforced upon the checkers/trainers first and only then on the rest. The 747 CP putting in writing that ONLY what's in quotation marks is a standard callout and required to be verbalised is a breath of fresh air. This place is at least moving towards the right direction. Lots of old timers however are utterly hopeless and pull way too much crap out of their behinds and call it standard and the fact that their BS is not in writing anywhere does not seem to be a problem to them. Fantasy personal preference based on a perceived understanding of one's own mind rules the day.

Just talking to a very senior checker who was livid about the fact that when they decide to require additional training or a redo of a PC they almost never inform the guy doing the redo why this is being done or what the objective of the extra training is so it is generally a waste of time in his opinion. So what would make anyone thing there will be any coherent training done on the RT the day after the PC that would have something to do with the PC the day before? At times the reports don't even get written up for a week or even more. How often have you seen agreement between what the sim instructor says and what the pc checker says the next day? And with our poorly written extra gray manuals which are intended to not be so restrictive to tie the hands of the thinking pilot (this according to "the bubble"... 3rd. Floor)... They can't see the forrest for the trees. Which trees are important and which are not of course depends on which individual you ask on the day, never mind what the book says. Subjectivity rules over objectivity. SOPs? Please, don't make me laugh.

bigbeerbelly 16th Apr 2013 11:50

As far as I am aware, the -8 IPT is not available for booking. Unless this has changed recently, its only for training. :confused:

positionalpor 16th Apr 2013 16:49

different opinions
 
I remember my first RT/PC in CX.
The RT Sim instructor referenced many times to the FCTM. He concluded, that it was a good book indeed where to gather informations.
Next day PC. Really, really senior STC: The FCTM is a worthless manual.......

:ugh:
?????

Yeager 17th Apr 2013 00:14

FG,

Everybody makes "mistakes" and moves on. A PC is not about failing someone, its about checking to a certain level (standard) of competency to pass.

Of course you fly for a company known to have a problem, as drawn out by yourself;


"..Is this a problem ? Well in an airline with big picture thinking and checkers with the experience to see real problems as opposed to interpretations of convention, then NO . In an airline where the minutiae and pet SOP crowd dominate and subsequently good pilots' careers and health are the casualties, then yes it is a problem..."
Is shouldn't be that hard to go do a PC on the simulator. Deal with what comes your way and if/when you make "mistakes" correct the best you can. I know of NO aero plane that can't be landed safely - even after self-induced "extras". Surely the CX mouth music may fail during the session - but in the world outside CX, that is almost expected - nobody cares - life goes on and the job got done (or you failed/partially failed).

Perhaps some of you would benefit from not giving a **** and just go-do the PC. To much bitching and mourning about the stupid system - just deal with it. It's CX - BUT It's just an airplane/simulator. :ok:

PS; don't forget to have fun


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