Hong Kong Airlines to London/Gatwick
 

Qantas talks but Hong Kong Airways acts on premium Asia flights | Plane Talking

b.

Basing.
 

Wanna base? LGW? Watch this space!

What a great idea ! Who ever would have thought of offering 1st and J class to UK.....another first from the leaders in air transport ( and BSing ):ok:

CX must be laughing! :} Strange move for HKAs upcoming IPO. 116 wide seats on a long-range widebody? Commercially flawed...

Agree with mcdude. It won't last. Might be a nice way to commute home when CX is stuffed to the gills though...

Thinking of Fuel alone...
10 tonne first hr, 6-7 after that.. Im think 75-80 tonne of burn..
for at max 116 people...??? 650KGs in gas alone... per person.

This is a money loser that a child can figure out.

BA and LH offer transatlantic premium service, but its in A319 or B737's and only for 7-8hr sectors.

HKA PAX got angry....
 

Furious Chinese passengers refused to leave a plane at Hong Kong airport for several hours until they were paid compensation for flight delays, an airline spokeswoman said yesterday.

The protest sit-in began when the Hong Kong Airlines plane landed around 5.30am local time on Wednesday from Singapore, airline spokeswoman Eva Chan said.

The Airbus 330 carrying 159 passengers had been delayed in Singapore for almost nine hours due to a technical fault and a fracas between two groups of passengers which left an old Chinese women with an injured hand.
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"Some of the passengers weren't happy with our compensation policy and they showed their anger. Actually it was quite a mess," Chan said of the incident at the boarding gate in Singapore.

The airline offered the passengers HK$400 ($A51) each by way of compensation but 80 of them rejected the offer and refused to leave the plane in Hong Kong until they received more money, she said.

Fifty nine passengers gave up their sit-in and left the aircraft at 9am but the remaining 21 -- including a tour group from Shenzhen and four travellers from Hong Kong -- remained on board.

Police were called to the scene as the crew tried to negotiate with the passengers inside the cabin.

"For airport security reasons we had to call the police. We couldn't take action because it wouldn't be right for us to force them off the aircraft," Chan said.

Ninety minutes later the passengers agreed to disembark, but they continued their protest inside the airport. The protest finally ended around 1:30pm when the airline raised their compensation to HK$1200 each.

"The amount of the compensation is not important. Their (Hong Kong Airlines) attitude was very poor," one of the passengers from mainland China was quoted as telling Hong Kong's iCable TV.

Chan said the airline apologised for the inconvenience caused by the plane's technical problem, but added that up to two hours of the delay in Singapore was due to the protest actions of the passengers.

"Two groups of passengers tried to fight with each other at the boarding gate and an old lady fell down and injured her hand," Chan said.

The spokeswoman said the injured woman received medical treatment for the injury and compensation from the airline in Singapore, but she continued to demand more money on arrival in Hong Kong.

"We offered to take her to a hospital or clinic but she refused," Chan said.

Chan rejected some of the passengers' allegations in the media that they were assaulted by Singapore airport staff and deceived by the airline about compensation.

She said CCTV footage of the incident in Singapore showed the airport ground staff had acted appropriately.

AFP

So these clowns were delayed for 9 hours and then proceeded to hang around for another 8 hours on the plane in HKG - i.e. a total delay of 17 hours for $1200?

My time is certainly worth more than $ 70 an hour. How low can aviation go?

Well, what do they expect. You pay cheap airfares, you get cheap service. The money has to come from somewhere. I think the HK market is coming to terms with the LCC concept as a whole and we can expect to see more stories like this as more LCC penetrate the market.

As an aside, a few non pilot friends of mine just flew HKA and told me it was possibly the worst service they have ever had. This is a couple too that is well travelled and have wracked up a few airmiles in places like Africa etc

I wouldn't be worried about the service, I'd be worried about the fact you have a better than even chance of having a pair of incompetent muppets up the front, the kind that try to take off on taxiways etc

That is just BS. Plain and simple. :=


Just like the Muppets from an incompetent outfit like Finnair?

So you are upset because you didn't get a slot on the A330 - we get it :rolleyes:

I wouldn't set foot on a HKA plane for money. I would rather get to london without having to worry about who is flying the plane.... Why would anyone in their right mind choose to HKA over CX? Forget about the seats. Look at the guys sitting in the cockpit.

With CX I know I won't be taking off from taxiway Alpha with a crew that has the combined experience of a CX cruise pilot.

LOL....plain and simple, your airline SUCKS!

Pulled into outer bay at the same time as the
HKA chugs. We each get a bus.. Only took
one for their pax.. We're working on bus number 3
and still have PAX aboard

Must be profitable over there..

Both 330's.. I guess that's a HKA selling point-

With few pax it's fast to debark, and no fighting over
who gets the armrest:E

Im ex Cathay and trust me boys youre talking twoddle, there are now high time experienced skippers in HKA..the beast is growing bigger, salary slowly increasing and is starting already to attract the experienced boys, more arriving..mainly high time Airbus guys. Youll find the experience levels quite adequate and already Im hearing rustlings from experienced sand skippers in the sandpit wanting to leave the desert and head for normality, albeit still polluted. Its typical for new starts, as it grows; more and more people apply, salary creeps up and its suddenly a new playing field...look at EY,QR and EK in the early days..same formula. Im a retired resident in HK now and take an active angle on all the toys here and I wouldnt sniff at HKA.

AAIGUY...your observations are somewhat basic....you conclude pax numbers and profitability based on bus loads...try looking into destinations and then compare..a Manila bound CX compared to a Moscow bound HKA cannot even be comparable and is no indicator on profitability and route revenue...its almost laughable dear boy.The Moscow flights are thin and the Asian flights packed...state the destination of the HKA and your flight then we can compare but route is a huge factor...not that Hainan probably care. Not to mention that HKA is the new kid on the block and CX booking and passenger loyalty is eons old...it takes time for passenger loads to rearrange with the new outfit in town. I did some consultancy with EY years ago, first few years the same was said on loads, salary ,staff etc by the neighboring EK gang...well I think tables have turned somewhat.
The typical observer here are the frustrated Dragon and CX FOs...CX although far larger,has to be careful not to head the Gulf Air in terms of declining product... the new gulf upstarts of QR and EY were laughed at once....China is throwing their glove in with HKA and its a shiny new product with innovation...it will never be 5 star for a long time...like Cathay.. but its competition none the less.

just my tuppenny worth...a bored but interested retiree sipping on a G & T in a dodgy bar in Kowloon with an interested eye on the HK goings on.

Dog, those " frustrated " CX and KA Effos earn more than a HKA skipper and have far more security and benefits and that's not twoddle old chap, that's plain facts. If you want any proof about what it's like to work for a Lainan company, just trawl the SE Asia forums, not too many KA CX frustrated Effos in that lot.
Toodle pip

Very well said DOG i:ok: have many friends in HKA all highly experience airbus pilots like myself, but there is nothing one can say to change the attitude of the cx guys:ugh:, they somrtimes forget HK is part of china and their monopoly is slowly but surely coming to an end, i totally agree that HKA will remain a 4 star for sometime but its a young company and open to change, one thing though i have no doubt HKA is here to stay and the people there at least the ones i know are good decent pilots.

Hey ADBF/AAIgay - you do realise there are retired ex-Cathay Training Captains working at HKA now? And a good number of CX F/O's have jumped ship (*gasp* left CX!) to join HKA?
More on the way too, thanks to your company screwing guys tax affairs I hear.

Them's the plain facts.
Toodle pip.

I don't realize that.

I do realize they are incredible short of staff, and the trainers from KA and CX that went there that I know have all left due to management incompetence.

Buddy.. I worked there 3 years.. I know what idiots they are.
As soon as they have their first hull loss.. (I give them 18 months max) they will be shut down. They've been on the fence too long.


Good luck though.. enjoy the low pay and sh*t conditions.:ok:

What a piece of work you are!!:ugh: You and hkfooey are always wishing ill on others.

I once worked for a crappy outfit with a bunch of moppets running the show but I, never in a million years, wish that they have a hull loss or close down...I know there are innocent good people having to remain there for a lot of reasons. Hull loss...gee, innocent people onboard or on the ground can die; I WOULDN'T WISH THAT ON MY WORST ENEMY IF THAT GETS INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED!!! Sheesh!

Well said Tipsy...what a diabolical nut this aaiguy!

Don't try to defend the indefensible:(

Not sure how I got roped into this Alchohol, I'm pretty sure I never " wished " a hull loss upon them, but I do think they are a good candidate for one.
Despite the much exaggerated number of experienced KA and CX crew there ( prob 1/2 dozen max ) there are still a large number of incompetent muppets up the front. BTW, I am well aware of the abundance of incompetent muppets in CX/KA also.
HKA is a 5hit operation owned by lying muppets ( see ADBFs comments re Hainan or Lainan as anyone who has worked for them would call them ) and that is unlikely to ever change.
Enjoy your unpaid leave next time some disease or crisis sweeps through that polluted, overcrowded toilet :ok:

I didn't wish it, I said it was a forgone conclusion. Very different.

The only saving grace will be that their aircraft will have very light loads:E

AAIGUY, I agree with Jizz. I think your last post, especially the second point, is wholly inappropriate and should be deleted.

STP

Hong Kong Airlines to receive 50 aircraft by 2015
 

I think it is a very clever move. CX always boast that they can kill any lo-cost entries by beating them on price, on the basis that the front end revenue is what pays. If HKA can knock a hole in CXs premium market share, then that would be a master stroke.

BTW with all of the dilution on the 8th Floor and the 'we invented aviation' attitude at CX, I think it is unwise to crow about the likelihood of HKA leaving a smoking hole in the ground.

This whole 'debate' is just history repeating itself. So very familiar.

I heard all these same arguments when the LoCo's started to make major in-roads in europe. The forecast was that (due to the rapid expansion and low time promotions) there would soon be LoCo aeroplanes falling out of the skies all over the place.

The guys who made such forecasts would vehemently deny any desire to see that happen (just as you do). I'm sure they really didn't wish it. I'm sure you really don't. But it would be ever so helpful al the same - they could all say 'see, I told you so' and wallow in the personal vindication that might bring.

To be brutally honest, I might have felt the same myself back then. After all, the LoCo's were doing enormous harm to our profession, and still do. I didn't like it one bit (and I never worked for one).

And yet - and yet - I've had to accept - the simple fact was, as time passed and they grew ever bigger, the disasters did not happen! The LoCo's thrived in spite of all the doomsayers, and they've had good safety records, especially when measured against a 'Legacy Carrier' like Air France. Three hull losses (with fatalities) in recent years.....

Hong Kong hasn't been touched by this revolution in the business - yet. Cathay (and the subsidiary Dragonair) have really been insulated from the shock that has swept over Europe and the US because of the unique nature of the local market. But times are changing. As mass travel grows in China, a new (but tested) dynamic takes hold. The huddled masses want to fly - cheaply.
The Legacy Carriers will feel the pressure. Upstart carriers (like Air Asia) are doing in Asia what was done in Europe, and the US (and come to mention it - where are Air Asia's multiple hull losses?).

Luck plays a big role in all this - I'll give you that. And reputations are easily destroyed. But be careful what you wish for.

I think its great that CX and KA pilots are well paid btw. I think that's the benchmark for all to aspire to, rather than envy.
But unfortunately, I've lived through this before. I know how it starts, and I know how it ends. The new world order has finally landed on your doorstep.
You might as well try holding back the tide.

Busbert.. I think you're right.

David could slay Goliath, but it would have to be a southwest type model and it would need proper marketing. I've long thought that. Budget carrier, great website, easy booking, service reputation.. but that isn't HKA.

It's more like God vs Wingwong from Dalian who has no understanding how to do anything that isn't a group booking for a tour operator.

Its no secret I worked there 4 years ago.. it was progressive, grew from 1 airplane to about a dozen, but the SS came in and changed all that.. then it almost fell over and only had 2 planes a few months back.. now there are some 330's here.. I've seen nothing but protesting pax, engine failures and light loads.

Plans to fly 116 or so pax to London are just not economically viable. If they were to get a 380 with 30' seat pitch and 650 pax, I'd say they could make a go of it.

Their biggest ally, the mainland Hainan ownership, is their biggest liability.

Whilst we've all seen the Chinafication of Hong Kong, from my experience actually in China over 7 or so years, shows a gravitation towards Western ideals.

A carrier that could grasp both concepts is whats needed.

CX is not the answer.. CX ran by Air China.. maybe..
But that would swing too far East before they understood they were alienating the West.

But under the current mismanagement, the Chunts over @ HKA can barely sustain their losses, let alone deal with a new concept

Airbus A380s included HNA group for Hong Kong Airlines fleet | Plane Talking

b.

China Southern has one ( or 2??) operating
PEK- Ghuangzhaou.

Love to see it, but Doubt HKA will see one

Dont worry chaps, I know a few of the mainly antipodean disgruntled few who were in HKA in the early days, the fact AAI mentions he was there before pinpoints himself with a fairly mediocre aviation background as the guys recruited in the early days were really picked from all corners mainly low hour guys with little or no jet experience, those days HKA were really desperate and this chap was one of them. His bleating on about economic viability of premium routes and hull loss probability is utter ignorance from an individual who himself was recruited at the bottom end of the job market all those years ago.
Unfortunately guys like him and the others who were in the 73 HKA ops in the beggining all have a degree of bitterness as the airline is now moving on,pulling quality crew in...unfortunately he left the boat thinking it was about to sink and it must hurt to see it booming.
Its obvious as these guys (AAI and HKfooey) though moved on in new ventures are still trawling these pages...only those with regret would take such an avid interest now..chaps move on and enjoy your new jobs,m those that are in there now, many from reputable backgrounds are quite happy with the conditions which with the new package is quite above the average CX/KA salary although admittedly from my drinking chums who are skippers there, the housing allowance needs a top up for HK standards.

I hope the premium route does do well, according to planning its a viable idea and I hope it remains that way as I will jumping on it to London at least once a month if the costing is less than CX.
:ok:

AAIGUY

I operated Paris - Amsterdam. 50 minutes taxi , 45 minutes flight, 4 (four) pax, at least the inbound flight had 9 (nine). Good loads according to the ground staff, they have seen 0 ( zero's)

Joined for big expansion and quick command
Sadly it turned out to be a joke.

And HKA can't post ... English second language and all..

Ah Mr 5 post 'dogstick'
Change your handle much?

Actually joined HKA in early days with several
years on B747.. As well most of my other
colleagues, including Fooy , had years of jet
background.

It was quite the opposite.
Crews were highly experienced initially, including a
couple of 49ers, EK/FAA training Capts.
And everyone one who left.. Which was everyone
moved on to KA, CX, Metrojet ect.


If HKA had a new pay package, it would be
out and guys would leave KA or CX

Sadly your entire post is untrue



What is true is that your 'professional' HKA crews
tuned the wrong ILS and landed on the wrong
runway the other day.

Like a said - HKA is group of clowns

747 experienced and you joined a relatively crappy new 73 outfit when in those days most experience was hunting the bigger jobs? strange career move but this isnt about you.
I dont post on pprune normally, but the posts I saw here just prompted me to, HKA is far from perfect and is not my concern how they do though I have an interest in HK as have been here so long. I do just see it as a shame that all companies start from humble begginings, and those that were there during the rough days brand it as such forever. I saw EK in the early days,same was said about that too. I know some of the new chaps joining HKA and they are from fairly big experience on 330, some of whom my colleagues from a long way back in Europe. To suggest or predict hull loss is just wrong, and yes there may be clowns there but just remember there are clowns everywhere...its the nature of the job.
There have been some fairly major screw ups with the big carriers with high experience crews, wrong weights, wrong runways etc and vigilance is required whatever your passport or license. There are guys,ex pals of mine still in CX/KA...who are looking and would jump to HKA...its the shiny new outfit thats booming,and especially for FOs the career path is rosier...however..HKA could never compete with the housing allowance that CX offers so its not an option....and at the same time there is word HKA isnt too keen on the competition either...understand from sources there are many KA applications on the desk...and ignored. Theres too much interest from Bus qualified guys in the desert.

Bottom line in all this, do you see any bleating from current HKA crew? no..those that are there are happy with the new T and C's ..and arent even checking this out, those that are complaining and morbid are those that left HKA...that says it all really.

Cheers:ok:

Dogstick, your credibility went from zero to somewhere south of that. As AAI said, HKA lured plenty of experienced drivers with typical Chinese lies and BS, the fact that you call us bitter, low experience drivers just confirms that you know jack 5hit about us or HKA, git.

The Chinese commies should just walk in and haul all these 2 miscreant off to their gulag for re-education;)

Ticket sales just opened.

Tried a simulation. 77,309.00 HKD for a return ticket

Same dates / times / class on CX is worth 55,702.00 HKD

=========================================================

Review Your Flight Details
Hong Kong to London
Monday, March 19, 2012

Departure: 23:50 Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Arrival: 05:55 +1 day(s) London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX875 e
Duration: 14h05m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330
Class: Business

London to Hong Kong
Friday, March 23, 2012

Departure: 21:30 London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Arrival: 17:45 +1 day(s) Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX876 e
Duration: 12h15m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330
Class: Business

Legend:
e = e-ticket,
HKD = Hong Kong Dollar
Price Details
Passenger(s) Airfares Taxes
1 adult(s) x (74,810.00 + 2,499.00) = 77,309.00 HKD
Total for all passengers 77,309.00 HKD

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