Penny pinching...
 

2. The Consumption of Alcoholic Drinks by Positioning Crew section has
been amended to ensure Crew Members positioning in uniform do not
consume alcohol since they may be selected for testing.
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Smells like an excuse to save a few dollars. Surely logic would come into play for positioning crew when conducting random testing (Oz).

Drug testing
 

*What about " a beer on the bus"- we have blocked off and are outside the airport?
*What about the "banker ******" who has just had a "pissy lunch" and goes back to the office and blows your hard saved investment?
Drug test me ok but do the whole workplace and not just the aircrew, why are we so special?

Management Drug Testing
 

So as not to be seen to be discriminating surely this means no more alcohol for Cathay Management in Catalinas at lunch time, after all they then return to their offices and make decisions on the operation of the airline directly affecting it's safety!!
Carn't wait for the memo bringing this ban into effect immediately...Watch this space!

management in that company has got no moral. Its not up to the CX pilot to impose standards on management - management will however impose standards on the pilots. You should know by now. People are different. No more drinking on those long transfers. Enjoy - nothing is new.

Unfortunately, D and A testing is becoming a fact of life in the various 'nanny' or 'lawyer' states in Europe, and Australia.

In Australia, any aviation workers deemed to be 'airside', including paxing crew, can be selected at random by officious dogsbodies, and if you blow more that the equivalent of mouthwash traces, you are for the high jump. At least one of our crews has been tested in MEL (at the END of a nine hour flight :hmm:), obviously with negative results.

To the best of my knowledge, there has not been one incident of airline crew under the influence of alcohol, or an incident attributable to alcohol, in Aussie aviation history. A whole new 'iron ricebowl' group of public servants have taken it on themselves to declare it a 'problem', and have spawned yet another empire to feed off the taxpayer's teats.

When this program was introduced, a plastic 'drug and alcohol awareness calender' was mailed by out by CASA (its Director, by the way, an ex-CX 'head kicker'), to every pilot in Australia, reputedly at a cost to the taxpayer of $50,000+. Trouble was, it had a whole month missing, wrong days highlighted as 'weekends' and other errors; whoever proof read it might as well have been on drugs or alcohol themselves. This is the idiocy we are up against.

So this time, I think management are innocent. It is more 'nanny state' nonsense that flight crew will have to bear throughout their working lives.

How many pictures have you seen in company publications of a Champagne toast at the end of a flight for one celebratory reason or another?
This is ingrained in our culture and nothing wrong with it.
Sten's outgoing NTC is not very well thought out.
Guess we just change out of uniform first.....

This is a sensible move that actually protects us. If you are PXing in uniform and on the GD you have been on duty and could be breath tested on arrival (pathetic but the way the world is going!). If the test is positive, even if you are not type-rated on that A/C, before common sense prevails the press will have run with the story and your career will be over!

Agree entirely! The important thing however is to protect ourselves from this insanity.

I agree entirely and to suggest the company are doing it to save money is bordering on paranoid. It is simply more 'nanny state' nonsense, nothing to do with the company on this occasion.

So let me get this straight - you are not type rated on the aircraft, you have no intention or qualification to fly that aircraft, yet you are to be "prosecuted" for an offence that in fact you cannot commit, albeit lawfully (putting aside the silly idea of hijacking, - they will never get random tested before the event - Religious and Political intoxication doesn't count!).

Is it an offence to wear a uniform and have a drink, without the intention to fly? Does Random testing cover this?
Is it an offence to be positioning out of uniform and have a drink? I would liken it to sitting at home, having someone coming to your home to carry out a random test in the event that you at some time will drive your motor vehicle?

I think that even in fact you are in uniform, on the Gen Deck, but without the authorisation to fly, then you have NO INTENTION to operate. Test away, get a positive result, what is the offence? Particularly after the flight. What have you done wrong? I think any authority would be hard pressed to bring a prosecution, unless of course there is other legislation that provides otherwise - please, if anyone knows, do tell.

There certainly is good reason no doubt to "test" the operating crew and we should all expect that to happen to us at some time in our careers.

Christn...spot on.

Simple really. Ask for a boarding pass, get out of your uniform shirt and don a 'Screaming Skull T-shirt (with collar of course).

Not necessary to be on the GD unless you have to take the jump seat, in which case it's a dry sector anyway.

Screaming Skull T-Shirt from Zazzle.com

Bob, there are other more important battles to fight but if you want to be splashed all over the front page of the Apple Daily, be my guest.

This is nothing. At my previous company drinking in uniform on or off duty was strictly a firing offense and their official definition of in uniform was wearing any part of it. On top of that, you weren't allowed to ever be at the bar in uniform for any reason even to just pay for food. And we don't have a random alcohol/drug testing here... yet. That would be interesting here to say the least.

But here's the obvious: If you feel the need or insist on drinking alcohol in uniform (on duty or not), you are an alcoholic.

I think you are missing the point VR. I believe that the notice concerns the scenario of getting drug tested after a flight, in which case (under current company policy) you will be in uniform. It is not an issue of actually consuming alcohol in uniform - that is just plain common sense. They are just warning you that you will be seen as "part of the crew", so therefore you will be fair game to any testing that occurs.

So the real question should be why do we bear all the responsibility of working crew when we PX but only incur half the cost to the company? I think the AoA should be approaching the company about this recent notice demanding that we get 100% credit for PX. If we must wear a uniform, can't enjoy our in-flight meal with a beverage, then why are we at a discounted rate?

They could also solve this whole mess by letting us travel in plain clothes, just like every other friggin' company in the world when they have a need to move their employees around. You don't see an executive for Coca Cola wearing company t-shirts and logo covered hats when traveling on business.

When we PX we are traveling somewhere at the request of the company, we are not STANDBY FILL-INS. And if something happened on said flight that would require the assistance of PXing crew, shouldn't them wearing a uniform be the least of your worries? :ugh:

Skwak7700, couldn't agree more.

How naive are you
 

As Captain Dart said, anyone working in a safety sensitive occupation can be tested under CASA rules. Safety sensitive extends to anyone involved in daily flight operations - pilots, cabin crew, engineers, doctors, flight dispatchers, tug drivers, etc.

Doctors, nurses, train drivers, truck drivers, bus drivers, power workers, so on and so on have been randomly tested for many years in the UK, USA, Australia, NZ.

If you travel in plain clothes you would need to be resident of the destination country or have a visa. PX solves the problem of a visa because you are on the GD.

As VforVENDETTA said, most major airlines do not permit drinking in uniform or part of it - taking your slides, name tag and tie didn't count - you are still in part uniform.

So you can only be "partly" tested???

Really? Name one airline that does that. Do Coca Cola wear company t-shirts and logo covered hats to work?

Lufthansa.

They were behind me in the crew channel at an Asian CX online airport about 3 weeks ago, half of them wearing civvies. When I asked what the situation was, they told me they were "dead-heading" (obviously their term for our PX).

They were quite shocked when I told them that although we can change to non-uniform onboard, we are required to go through the crew channel in uniform.

I was PXing back to HK one day spilled coffee on my white shirt during the previous sector so changed to my polo shirt for the PX sector.

HK wouldn't let me go throughout the crew channel without my uniform shirt on even though I was listed on the GD and had my HK CAD issued crew card around my neck :ugh::ugh::ugh:

What a crock! Many a time and oft, I have flown three sectors, handed over to the relief crew, then deadheaded back to home plate on the fourth sector. Invariably, we would remove our slides and ties, sit in the back row of the cabin, where we would be well looked after by the girls (no male stewards on my company in those days.)

Some Champagne, a splendid lunch, washed down with a fine claret, then a quiet kip and all was well with the world. The result? Arrived at home plate after a 12 hour duty feeling like a box of birds!

This does raise the question as to whether a crewmember who is not part of the operating crew (or because he is not qualified on the aircraft could not be part of the operating crew) can legally be included on the GD. As we all know this move came about to save airport taxes. But I'm sure the GMA has the answer.

Virgin Atlantic

I believe it's the HK CAD that requires crew to wear uniform. Years ago crews went base training in civvies. :D Today they barely look at your crew card :ugh: It's the same CANNOT that stops crews from being able to use the freighter for staff travel. They cannot :} think outside the box!

Probably the same idiots that won't let Crew change aircraft in HK by walking airside. Or the same idiots that won't let you into the departure area from the Aircraft. :=:ugh:

Easy, change into civvies on board then use HKID to go through electronic channel instead of crew channel

Qantas

The Airlines that think outside the box are starting to add up.

Just retired & find all this a good read, particularly out of uniform & JD& coke at hand ! Everyone hates the "in the old days" stuff but I did work for the glorious Air Europe from '79 -'91. Long haul positioning was the best bit. Flt Deck went firm First. Cabin crew went firm Business but they were often upgraded & joined us in First. We were NOT to wear uniform & dress appropriately for the class of cabin. Full use of the lounges was made by all. There was never a case of anyone behaving outrageously. We were treated extremely well by the company & conducted ourselves, reasonably. And, yeah, in full uniform, in the crew bus, heading for the hotel in Bongo Bongo, or wherever, what fun to down the 'browncows' carefully made up by the number One for the journey ! How awful to read of the continued denegration within this once proud careeer. Not much of it sounds like fun anymore.

QANTAS.
QANTAS paxing crew are issued with a boarding pass and are not on the GD.
Uniform is not required.

I agree it appears ridiculous Bob.

Paxed down to Miami with a boarding pass and had a few drinkies. Transferred to a company aircraft for flight down to South America, on the GD so uniform and no booze.

I wouldn't drink if I was on the GD.
Then again the airline I am with now doesn't have pax sectors.

PX is a duty, and Company policy has always been clear about drinking on duty.

The idea that not being rated on the aircraft type does not really cover all the possibilities either. I was DT (many years ago) on another type, from Europe when we diverted en-route with a medical emergency. I was quite busy sorting out issues for the operating crew.

Management are paranoid about legal liability. The NTC is just another example of CYA.

Bueno Hombre

Don't think!

For crying out loud, can't anyone get through a PX sector without having a cocktail? Sure it's nice to quaff an ale during the flight (as I pax of course) but is it absolutely necessary to do so? You are on the GD in order that you don't have to stress about having to get visas for everywhere you travel. If you want to drink so badly, then perhaps the company you work for will insist that you take up the hassle of ensuring that you have the proper documentation to travel out of uniform. Thanks, but no thanks. I will have my beer in the comfort of my room.

If you will excuse the intrusion can I put a point across that I think has not been mentioned, that of the public perception. I drive trains for a living and after 10hrs or so in the seat would love to just go and have a beer, but not in uniform. The vast majority of the public are ignorant to your and my working practices. All they see is a uniform, if that uniform is stood at a bar or in an cabin seat throwing a few tots down then their perception of us is not going to be too good. It does not matter if you are travelling PX or are off duty all they see is the uniform and draw their conclusions from that.

Another problem today is that nearly every man and his dog has a smart phone. Would you like your picture put up on a social networking site if you were having a beer in uniform along with inaccurate comments? People will always think the worst. Protect yourselves, never put yourselves in the position of having your professional integrity questioned.

We do not wear our uniform during the flight, only before and after the flight to get through immigration/security. In fact, we are obliged to remove our uniforms during the flight, or at least remove epaulettes, name tag, badges, etc. if the pilot does not change into another shirt once on the airplane.

Full credit for PX flights then?!

Member's Motion
 

Put it up as a member's motion for an AOA EGM that the AOA enters contract compliance if the company does not offer an RP deal that includes full credit for PX.

I'll vote for it.

So will I.

McGoonagall, the argument has never been about wearing our uniform while drinking. No-one does this, don't need a rule for it because it should be common sense. But, as someone already pointed out, it is policy to remove uniform while PXing.

Flying Phoenix you have been at CX too long, or maybe it is the only airline you have worked for. Most airline's will get you the crew visa, that is why countries have it. Like most things, just a matter of Cathay wanting their cake for consumption as well.

And everyone, where the hell does it say that you can't have a drink if you are on the GD? I don't understand why one has to do with the other. The GD specifies that you are PXing, usually by showing you in the bottom and with a PX code next to your name. Obviously, you don't get ripped on the flight knowing that you will be walking around in uniform in the near future.

Oh well, I would not be surprised if some dooshebag abused this privilege and ruined it for all of us. :rolleyes:

This argument has been going on as long as I can remember - and with every airline I've worked for. It's pretty simple really. There are two scenarios where a pilot will find himself positioning for duty. The first (and more frequent) is when he/she is positioning in uniform and where said pilot may or may not have to operate a subsequent flight, either the same day, or perhaps even a day or two later. In this case, it's pretty clear. If the company puts you on the GD, then you must wear a uniform. In my opinion the drinking debate ends. I couldn't care less if you don't have to fly until the next day and you decide to dawn a t-shirt for the flight - you are prohibited from drinking. Take a moment to think about why it might not be such a good idea. Now the second scenario occurs when you might be positioning as a passenger to undertake simulator etc. in a foreign country. In this case, you are not required to travel in uniform as you not part of the GD - you are probably travelling on a confirmed space ID ticket. As a passenger on company business you may partake in a cocktail or two. But remember, you are still a representative of the company and must act accordingly. Don't get sloshed on the company's dime; it's not a good career move.

Finally, if these policies don't suite you, then try and have them changed by arguing the merits of why you need to have a a drink on a positioning flight. Perhaps you might convince your company to loosen it's drinking policy perhaps not, either way it won't kill you.