How many times did they say " We don't know if Profit Share will be paid this year""???
Could they have not said... " there is no Agreement for Profit Share this year"?? , instead of keeping us wondering?
Do i understand correctly that those who signed for COS 08 are getting the equivalent of SLS back, even though they didn't pay it?
Don't jump on me, i'm just not as smart as the rest of you.............

COS
 

COS reads,

"officers will be entilted to recieve an annual share of CPA's profits in accordance with company policy as may be amended time to time".

Would this not mean a policy must be in place to be in compliance with the COS from the employer's point of view? From a legal standpoint, seems that simple. Thoughts/ comments?

so will it get paid in March pay packet, or as the memo states. Paid in April..

Reckon it'll be in April so you won't get slugged for tax in the year up to 31 Mar 2010.
And as for I don't read it that way.
If you were a sucker like me, you get 90% back, if you didn't take SLS, you get 100% of what you gave the company, ie zip.

..and just how surprised are you all?

When has the company management failed to penalise the honest employees of this company for their loyalty?

Get a life, everyone - 5 weeks extra leave and maximum FDP and EFP for all!

Hasn't anyone else worked this out?

Not accurate at all, lots of ground staff are B and C grade.

you all moan and carry on ,but the the fact of the matter is that as a group that should be united , we are a weak pathetic little school kid who will always be bullied! and the bully will keep pounding on us why? cause its fun! So go winge to ya mothers and think if in this generation of pilots that maybe darwins theory of evolution is true and that we were all born without backbones! Im embarrassed to be part of it. :ugh:

Big profits announced yet:

1- SLS not fully paid back (90% only for level D)
2- 13th month not paid (only two weeks)
3- no profit share
4- dividends paid to shareholders!

So, to sum it all up: we are giving some SLS, half of the 13th month and our share of profit to the shareholders.

Thanks again, dear company, for transfering our salaries into the accounts of shareholders. We hope that management also took the time to reward themselves with some of our salaries too.:D

I was strong armed into signing a new contract or stay on freighter scale indefinitely. It is going to cost me roughly $250,000USD over ten years as an FO now on UFO pay. Instead I will get three weeks pay instead of my B scale. I'd say I paid more than my share.

Regarding the 13th month, below is what our COS states:

"In any year when profitability is marginal or negative...the Annual discretionary bonus may be reduced or, in extreme circumstances, not paid."

Now, with over 4 billion in profits, I'd like to know why we haven't been paid our full 13th month? Any explanations? Seems like a breach of contract (seriously, isn't the bonus contractual with profits over 4 billion???).

To top it of, they will pay shareholders their share of the profit (dividends) but we won't see any of it? Really? 4 billion isn't enough to share?

Sorry, but giving back salaries (that we should have been paid in the first place anyway) isn't nearly enough.

:eek:

rjmore. Nobody strong armed anybody to sign Cos '08. That's your own fault, and you can't blame it on anybody but yourself!

So threat of not having any bases open on the 777 due to current COS 08 guys going to training wasn't real? I couldn't switch to the 777 to get a passenger base, can't go to HKG, and had no other choice but to remain on the freighter on freighter scale if I did not sign over.

Maybe strong arm is the wrong term but there certainly were not any great choices. That is also why most NAM FOs in my seniority level did sign over. I made the choice and I accept that, my statement was simply to show that we did make a sacrifice as well. Sometimes you have to know when you've been beaten, and we were beaten on this one.

With that, I'm done with the thread...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Well I'm happy. Three weeks extra leave last year where I obtained alternate employment. I banked double pay for that month. Bring back SLS. count me in for the next one!

Easy sorted...stick together, go to the the slimy lying basterds who pose as "management" as say...."sort it, or we walk".....balls anyone?

Cx has in the past done many things to annoy the hell out of me, but this SLS repayment is not one of those occasions. When I left the Air Force in 2005 I did so with 9 buddies. Of those 9 in the last year:-

4 - have been made redundant.
3 - are on a 40% pay cut for a minimum of one year.
1 - is expecting to hear if he will be made redundant in the next few weeks but is actively looking for a new job with virtually zero success.
1 – has had no change, but is far less confidant about his companies future.

I got an additional 3 weeks paid leave, when I wanted it!:ok:

Compared to the people I know I didn’t get a good deal.................I got without doubt the best deal.

As far as the captains go, yes I do find the withholding of 10% rather petty. I guess the company was trying to send the message that what permanent sacrifice has been made due to the financial crisis is to be borne by management. That may be a rather rose tinted view granted, but please answer honestly the following question:-

If at the start of the financial crisis instead of asking for unpaid leave the company had said we want all captains to take a month off but you will have to forfeit 3 days pay which you will not get back. Would you have taken it?

Just trying to look at this situation from a glass half full perspective! Hard hat and flack jacket on, standing by for incoming!:eek:

Glass half full

:ok:

Nick Rhodes says your glass is too big...... and he has a plan to fix that!!

perhaps, but I still got 3 weeks additional paid leave when I wanted. All I am saying is with this individual situation I do not understand all the venom.

Score one for management then. Divide and conquer is what it's all about.
Captains are pissed, but you're happy so all is well for you.
Good thing you'll never be a captain then...?

Comparing your situation to whatever hardship others are going through is also exactly what TT and the herd want you to think. Surely you don't think the 'industry news' part of the weekly newsletter is just a random collection of aviation headlines?

Management will ALWAYS seek the lowest common denominator, And if you're happy and satisfied with what you have, then you're paid too much.

Which is why I suppose you're also happy to give away your profit share so they can pay management bonuses, despite the profit?

Ex Cathedra

Certainly seems that Captains are pissed. But SLS was our choice and you did not have to take SLS if you didn't want too. When I signed up to the scheme I was sceptical that any would be paid back, but if you thought it was just a loan then I guess I can understand your anger! All that said if the company offered me an additional 4 weeks leave next year at a cost of under 3 days pay then I would jump at the chance. Perhaps you are right I am paid too much, or perhaps I just value my time off more than you do. If the company offer you an extra 4 weeks leave next year at such a cost will you take it?

Are you a captain? If yes then did you take COS08 and age 65? Are you happy with that? Some might say that was a divide an conquer issue. Be interested to know which side of the fence you fell on that one? I may not make captain, but that will probably be due to COS08. However before you jump to any conclusion on how I feel over that little issue let me point out that I have made no indication one way or the other.

As for the industry news update. Hmmm do you actually read that!!! My comments were based on real people rather than company spin. The fact is I know dozens of people in many airlines. Some are better off than me and some are worse. However, the simple fact is that my friends of similar age and time in the civilian world are ALL worse off that I am after the financial downtown. Maybe you are right rather than compare my situation with people of similar age experience and time in aviation I should compare myself to all the A scalers instead. Of course some may say that that was an unrealistic comparison! Bugger......What to do!

With regard the profit share that is a diffent situation and one which I have made no comment on so am somewhat surprised that you feel you know my opinion. Well done you! If you really can read minds then maybe you should put yourself forward to the AOA as a negtiator. We could do with that sort of help on our side! Of course you may be wrong, but there is little point in me commenting as you have already made up your mind on what I think!