Metric system in China
 

Hi guys
I understand they use km for distances
meteres for alt, elevation and height
km per hour or meter per sec for speed and wind speed

What else do they use that is quite different from the rest of the world?

can anyone please shed some light on this matter

THanks heaps:ok:

Basically, ICAO standard.

Their own language to their own carriers, which is extremely fatiguing when operating for long periods in their airspace. (90% of the R/T)

thanks guys

how about their transitional alt and layer?

QFE QNH etc?

Thanks again

QNH is used at the majority of airports, however QFE is used at predominately military fields that have a civil presence. The TA/TL are metric conversions of feet ie 9850'/FL118 however this is subject to change depending on the location with quite a few springing to mind that are different eg ZGSZ, ZPPP.

In a nutshell : the chinese are a bunch of IDIOTS!!!!:yuk:

They use metric simply because most of their military planes (over 90%) only have metric setting on the altimeters. Changing to imperial level system means changing all of the military planes.

ckhy:

Just to expand - A number of countries use metric levels, including China, Mongolia, Russia and many of the countries that make up the CIS (ie the former Soviet republics).

I believe it dates back to the WWII era (ie. pre-ICAO), when there was a push in Europe to go metric. After ICAO came along there was a push to standardise aviation units of measurement worldwide, but the US resisted the move to make everything metric and we ended up with the mish-mash of units and measures we have in aviation today, where some measurements are metric and others imperial. Most of the communist or former communist countries chose to keep the metric level system, probably because they had lots of Soviet built aircraft which were totally metric.

The US still lags the rest of the world when it comes to metric measurements in aviation. Visibility is usually reported in feet or miles, weight in pounds, altimeter settings in inches of mercury, and, until 1996, temperature in degrees fahrenheit.

Thanks Buzzbox for the info

and thanks all for the input

now that clears up a bit :ok:

Not to forget the mandatory use of 121.5 MHz as a "chat" frequency!

Slapfaan,

Not very nice - jy maak al jou geld hier, toon 'n bietjie respek! or move on -- simple.

AFL

anyone got a direct translation of the chinese phrasology for ATC? would be interested to trying to understand what they are saying.

i.e. giving direct to to chinese speaking operators.

anyone tried speaking chinese to them in ATC?
other than the ne-hau and jai-jen?

But what hasn't been mentioned is that to fly in their metric RVSM airspace you must fly in feet! :confused:

Neither the pilot nor the controller can look at their altimeter or radar screen and tell immediately what the cleared level of an aircraft is. Both must refer to a conversion table.
Great system. As someone said, its all because of the military. :mad:

Was told this by an IFALPA commity member......

"In 1948 when ICAO was being formed, its initial plan of action was to standardise aviation. China was the only country that implimented these ICAO recomendations and switched from Ft to Meters and Knots to KMH."

If this is indeed true then why should they change again?

AFL

Surely isn't it the case that the unit of a meter is too big for measuring altitude?

Think about it - 1000 feet is about right. Adequate separation, whole unit and we all understand what it means.

The meter, on the other hand, doesn't fit quite so right - 1000 is too big and 100 too small to be useable. Pilots like to keep their numbers simple, right?

Perhaps this is why for vertical measurements thousads of feet has endured, whereas horizontal distances has made greater headyway for metric - viz in meters etc.

Of course there are good mathemetical and navigational reasons why NM will always be currency.

numbers:
1 - yao (tone like out) or yi (in unambiguous cases)
2 - liang or er (in unambiguous cases)
3 - san
4 - si
5 - wu
6 - liu
7 - guai ( a dropping tone)
8 - ba
9 - jiu
0 - dong
10 - shi ( easily confused with 4 by non-native speakers so best avoid)
1000 - qian (sound like chi-en)
10000 - wan


levels normally read first 2 or 3 digits.
e.g. 8400m - gao du ba si (level 84)
12000m - gao du yao liang dong (level 120)
also can be long read: e.g. 8400m - gao du ba(8) qian(1000) si(4) (level 8 thousand 4, i.e. 8400)
12000m - gao du yi(1) wan(10000) liang(2) qian(1000) (level 12000) (yi same as yao = 1 but sound like seven so normally avoided, but in this case not ambiguous)

RT very similar to English in term of phraseology and format.
e.g. position report
bipop san(3) si(4), gao du jiu(9) liu(6), mepan wu(5) yao(1), ying da ji wu(5) guai(7) san(3) dong(0) (bipop 34, level 9600m, mepan 51, transponder 5730)
(5-letter position names read in English)
in above e.g. ying da ji = transponder

ATC reply: lei da kan dao le (radar seeing you = radar contact), jiao mepan (report mepan)

Pilot: ke yi zhi fei mepan ma? (Can we fly direct mepan?)

ATC: ke yi (approve) or zhi fei mepan (direct mepan)

ATC: hang dao fei xian (flight plan route)

Pilot: yao qiu you pian wu(5) hai li (request right deviation 5 NM)
Pilot: you tian qi, yao qiu zuo pian er shi (20) hai li (due wx, request left deviation 20 NM)

ATC: hang xiang yao(1) liang(2) dong(0) (fly heading 120)

ATC: shang gao du jiu(9) qian(1000) (climb to level 9000m)
ATC: luo si(4) qian(1000) ba(8) (des to level 4800m)

great post o_o_d_and_o

confirm callsign:
China Eastern: Dung Fang
China Southern: Nan Fang
Air China: Kwok Hang
Singapore: Sing-jia-boh
CX: Kwok-tai??
KA: Kong-lung

any other??

Almost...

China Eastern: Dong Fang
China Southern: Nan Fang
Air China: Guo Hang
Singapore: Xin - jia - po
CX: Guo-tai
KA: Gang-long

ATC: jiao Guang Zhou yao(1) liang(2) liu(6) dian(.) wu(5) (call GuangZhou 126.5)

ATC: jiao Xiang Gang yao(1) liang(2) guai(7) dian(.) wu(5) wu(5) (call Hong Kong 127.55)

Great post off_off_dim_and_off

I was just wondering whether ATC Comms carried out in Chinese are in Putonghua (Mandarin) or in the local lingo (like Cantonese)?

For example, you cite "12000m - gao du yao liang dong (level 120)" which I believe is Cantonese or other dialect. As far as I know, in Mandarin it should be "gao du yi er ling." If so, not all Chinese pilots will be able to understand it either.