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-   -   Extension Post 55 (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/316924-extension-post-55-a.html)

Glass Half Empty 7th Mar 2008 08:47

Extension Post 55
Well GMAs newsletter says it all. No automatic extension on pax fleet (unless C&T) for over 55s going on-shore.

Well done AOA, force them back to the table.

Loopdeloop 7th Mar 2008 09:27

Well done AOA.

I suggest not chasing them back to the table. If they want age 65, let's have a poll of the membership and if it turns out that we don't want it then leave it as it is. The way in which the company were trying to push this through was so heavily skewed in favour of the senior pilots it was almost laughable. If they really want it, let them come to us and we'll tell them how it is to be done.

Midnight Rambler 7th Mar 2008 11:28

So, Loopy, are you not intending to become a senior pilot one day? By then 65 might look mighty attractive the way prices are going up, dollar going down and provident fund not looking too good at 55.

It's good that the company has been knocked back on their first attempt at getting everything their own way. I hope the AOA can sort out a deal that keeps everybody happy (no you can't have any of the stuff I'm smoking) and at the same time keeps the expansion going.

Enjoy your G days with the kids.:)

ACMS 7th Mar 2008 11:38

Retire at 55 on a B scale P fund?????????????????????????

yeah right:{

the way it's going I'll need to work into my next life as well.........:(

Midnight Rambler 7th Mar 2008 11:43

My point exactly. But lets get it right this time.

strap 7th Mar 2008 12:09

Retirement Age
In the UK & Europe Age discrimination laws have come in to protect the workforce. CX had offered in line with these laws retirement of 65.

But the HKAOA come up and say these laws don't apply to us!!!

Who's side is the AOA on?

They have now turned down age 65 retirement in HKG & UK

Making more pilots redundant than CX fired several years ago.

What are the AOA doing?

whodunnit2 7th Mar 2008 12:22


I think you might find that the AOA would like to negotiate a deal that suits everybody as opposed to just a select group of senior pilots. Age 65 being imposed overnight would have set large sections of the pilot group back considerably.

Hopefully a settlement can now be negotiated that is a win/win for everybody concerned.

Nice job AOA - now let's hammer a decent deal out of this.


Loopdeloop 7th Mar 2008 12:44

I can see the benefit of 65 (I'm older than I look!). However, filling up the bases the way the company wants to is not on. The only people to benefit in the scheme the company tried to bludgeon through were senior captains who were happy to work out of LHR. They got the base, the money and the option to work 'till 65 - everyone else with a European interest lost.

The people who should be compensated for an increase in retirement age are those who are going to have their commands delayed without the benefit of bypass pay. If they want to just increase retirement age on a base then they should also look at overhauling the base structure.

Retirement age 55 and bypass pay were in my CoS when I signed up and if change is required then it should be negotiated fairly. The TUPE negotiations were the first step towards fair negotiation so I'm optimistic that the retirement age negotiations can proceed along similar lines......or have I been smoking the same stuff as midnight?

Glass Half Empty 7th Mar 2008 12:55

I am sure the Company will not want to see all those "wasted opportunities" going by so let's hope the AOA team have their head on straight when it comes to the talks.

Nullaman 7th Mar 2008 13:37

'Un bon effort AOA'! :ok::ok::ok:

Now let's try and get more people back in the AOA fold to push the whole thing forward.

joblow 7th Mar 2008 13:41

screwed yet again
Well I suppose that I should have seen this coming but even I have to admit that it took me totally by surprise .
What they give with one hand they take away with the other . It seems to me that they go out of their way to upset one pilot group or another on a continuous basis .
This could be a deal breaker for many senior C&T staff who had been given a much firmer commitment than an expectation of returning to A scales in April .
I do agree with the concept of bypass pay for the junior pilots who had it in their contracts but to penalize the C&T crews because they couldn't get an agreement is unjust .

I hope PW knows what a can of worms he is opening if he loses 5 or 6 STC's because of this, it is a loss that will take quite some time to recover from

ACMS 7th Mar 2008 13:45

My heart bleeds for you buddy.

Now get with the program.

Loopdeloop 7th Mar 2008 14:35

This should help to boost AOA numbers whichever side of the fence you sit upon. There's only one sure way of getting your voice heard now - The company would like to negotiate the subject and seem to be in rather a hurry to do so.......get your application in quick if you'd like a vote on your future!

moosp 7th Mar 2008 14:44

Loop, yes and it was good to see such a good number of new joiners and returnees in the latest AOA bulletin. With 50% membership they wipe the floor with you, with 90% they have to listen.

sisyphos 7th Mar 2008 14:52

great job AOA :ok::ok::ok:

I have absolutely no problem with guys working to 65 on a-scale, but let's make a deal that is acceptable for everyone.

Captain TOGA 7th Mar 2008 19:12

I did not know we had any "training staff", anyway, they are very easily replaced if CX decide to start training like an airline from the 21st century.:=

sizematters 7th Mar 2008 23:44

so at last the "ST out" brigade have to shut up........................congratulations to the AoA, ST and the negotiating team, unexpected pay increases, further negotiations, whats going on ??

seems like the AoA is doing a damn fine job , especially when you consider how little ammunition they have.......................

Now lets get a deal that suits everyone and pays a descent $$$$$

BenCLR8 8th Mar 2008 01:18

I can't agree more. Nice one Steve and the AOA and thank you. You have certainly surprised me!

May I suggest that before the next round of negotiations get underway that the GC talks to the membership though.

Perhaps by asking what everybody wants/expects we can avoid a similar fiasco this time around.

4 driver 8th Mar 2008 02:45

I also agree.
Everyone is quick to get on ST and the GC (who are all volunteers by the way) when things don't go 100% our way.
Maybe it's time to give a little credit.
Negotiation is give and take.
Does anyone really believe we are going to get everything we ask for.
Age 65 is the last card we have to play for a while, so lets get as much as we can.
The amount we get depends on membership numbers; remember "we" are the AOA.

Liam Gallagher 8th Mar 2008 03:05

I must be missing something on 4 counts
1. The company claimed it had to go "onshore" because of NI contributions and the retirement age. It now claims "legal opinion" says neither of these are a player because the aircraft are not UK registered.... so why go "onshore"?

2. House of Lords (the 2nd highest Court in the land) says based guys are UK employees and afforded the protection of UK employment law. Subsequently, 1 QC gives opinion that flying a non-uk registered aircraft(as G Crofts did) exempts you from at least part of UK emploment law and that is now taken as gospel..... so you really can be half pregnant?

3. The company, albeit unwillingly, agrees to raise the pay of extendees on base from B to A. AOA legal opinion says UK retirement law doesn't apply and the company reverts to the status quo of paying B scales and picking and choosing who they extend... somehow this is a win for the AOA?? To win, someone must lose... how did the company lose...?

4. Joblow claims the based C&T will leave and seeks some leverage in the argument. However, the based C&T's were never slow in bragging that once they got flying age 60/65 there would be no requirement to stay in C&T and they would leave anyway.....

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